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Question about treble hooks
18 replies to this topic
Posted 30 July 2007 - 11:02 AM
New to the board and new to tackle making in general. First off, i have been reading the board for the past month or so and want to thank everyone for the great information on this board; top notch!
Im looking at making some Vibrating Lures (Do-it Mold ZV-5-A) and would like to use some good treble hooks to put on these lures. Ive noticed that Mustad makes a clip on treble hook that allows you not to have to use a split ring to attach the hook to the bait. Anyone use these hooks? Are the good? Do any other hook manufacturers make a similar product?
If a guy were to use a split ring, what sizes are we talking for size 2-8 treble hooks? Does it affect the action of the bait at all?
One last question: How do they attach treble hooks to these kinds of baits without using a split ring or with out it being a clip on treble hook?
Thanks in advance!
Posted 30 July 2007 - 04:24 PM
I took the clip-on trebles off my blade baits and replaced them with split rings and Gamakatsu #4 or #6 round bend trebles, same as I use on crankbaits. Won't say the Mustads are deficient but the Gamys are sharper, stronger and generally top notch. I used #1 size split rings and can tell no difference in the action. Don't know how you would attach trebles without a split ring. I do know that using a good set of split ring pliers like the Texas Tackle brand makes the job 100% easier.
Posted 30 July 2007 - 05:49 PM
Have to agree with BobP on this one.........#1 split rings and, so far as trebles go, I only use the triple grip hooks now........I can't say they get you more hookups, but when you get one, its generally going to stay. Acts the same on wood too...........
Posted 30 July 2007 - 05:55 PM
Here is a tip I recieved from one of the Pro's that I work with.
This guy is a sliver buddy machine and smallmouth guru. Some hooks have a hard temper so you will have to experiment with different manufacturers hooks to find the style that you like and works the best. I have found that the Triple Grip hooks work awesome. The reason to not use split rings is that when you fight the fish the play that a split ring allows will give the fish leverage to throw the bait. Have caught smallies 45' deep up to 4 ponds on this same setup
Posted 31 July 2007 - 01:37 AM
Hi all - fantastic forum. Blackjack... Mustad makes a range of trebles with the above cuts ( as illustrated above ) already done for you..they seem a nice heavy treble and close up nicely. I can find there code number for this range of trebles if anyone is interested. Cheers Peter
Posted 31 July 2007 - 08:14 AM
Great info everyone! Im also a big fan of Gamakatsu hooks and as far as im concerned they are right up at the top. Do you guys ever do much with VMC or Diiachi hooks?
Also in terms of the hooks that you cut or have already been cut like above. How do you close that back up? Do you just bend it and then leave it? Or do you have to solder it? Thanks in advance!
Posted 31 July 2007 - 10:16 AM
No, split rings will not add strength, especially when you're talking about size #1, which are normally rated at 15# test in stainless.
Blackjack is 100% right on this one! And if you're worried you might bend that split out, rig it, tie it on the rod you'll use, hook it to something solid and pull, but be careful not to break your rod, which will happen before you bend the hook eye. You'll land way more fish this way than using split rings. This is a worthy consideration on other lures that have a tendency to get pitched with regularity, but the blade type baits definitely benefit!
Anderson, just bend it back closed.
Posted 03 August 2007 - 02:34 AM
If I can buy large doubles,why can't I buy small doubles?Split rings are last century.Doubles can face either way and are on and off in seconds.All I want is no.2-6x permasteel finish VMC.But I'am not holding my breath.
Posted 03 August 2007 - 02:52 AM
Does the hook getting snagged or twisted up on the eye without a split ring, become a problem, a bit like keys on a keyring (god this is hard to explain!!!!).
Posted 03 August 2007 - 06:16 AM
Never really had a problem similar to what you were explaining. When I use this bait it is not a cast and retrieve. The bait is literally dropped over the side of the boat and lowered to the depth the fish are at(anywhere from 15' to 50') The bait is a drop bait I usually jig the bait about 8" to 12" up and down. Most bites occur when the bait is on the fall. I see alot of guys fishing these style baits jerking their rod up and down imparting to much action and this is usually when the hooks will foul.
Posted 03 August 2007 - 01:45 PM
I bought 20 mustad 1/0 split trebles with bucktails on em and 3-4 of them broke when i straghtend the split. Sometimes i open the eyescrews and hang the hook through to aviod splitrings.
Posted 03 August 2007 - 03:15 PM
OK, I'm no physicist, but it seems to me that the less "play" the treble has, the easier it is for the fish to leverage the bait and throw the hook. I've even heard of guys putting 2 or more split rings on baits to give the fish less leverage to throw a hook. For the same reason, many tail spinners only have a hole from top to bottom with no hook attachment to the lure itself. You tie directly to the treble and the lure slides up the line when a fish has it. No chance to gain leverage and throw the bait. So why does having NO split ring improve things? I just can't see it. I've broken hooks trying to cut the tempered steel eye and crimp them on a lure (a Chatterbait copy). Even when successful, I always felt hinky about how long the hook eye would last before it failed.
Posted 03 August 2007 - 04:19 PM
The blade bait and a few other lures are different animals when it comes to generating leverage, and it can be explained by physics actually. In this case, adding split rings to a blade bait is akin to lengthening a string with which you're slinging a lead sinker around and around. With a more conventional lure with much less concentrated mass, you might try slinging it the same way, only to find you'll generate more speed and power by shortening the string instead.
I used to do the cut-hook-eye trick selling traps and bladebaits in a shop using VMC's round bend trebles. It would make you feel silly to consider that it wouldn't hold up while actually holding that particular arrangement in your hand. The first question everyone would ask was about the strength; you'll simply straighten the hook tines before opening the hook-eye in the least. I used to hand one of these hooks to customers tied to heavy line and point them towards an eye-screw in the wall, saying "Go try". Everyone who did try failed to open the hook's eye and was truly convinced of its strength. I agree with you about the split rings though in most every other instances, because, as alluded to above, without having that concentrated mass of a blade bait, a more conventional lure will decrease the leverage a fish can get on a lure when using split rings.. I always prefered the tail-spins with the hole and no line tie. And it was a successful touring pro (multiple BASS winner) who convinced me right before a tournament I was fishing years ago to try the Pro Trap, a rattletrap using that same arrangement. I still prefer my Pro Traps to standard rattle baits, despite some strides in hook technology since then.
I've experienced some poor quality in Mustads lately as far as their bass-size trebles go. I recently bought a 100 pack that contained 7 unuseable trebles. No more Mustads for me.
Posted 05 August 2007 - 08:43 AM
I love gama's also but the new sure set trebles really catch fish........Bass pro $2.99
Posted 06 August 2007 - 10:39 PM
Owner Hooks! As Sharp as Daiichi or Gamagatsu, but the spade point holds like no other.
Posted 14 August 2007 - 07:42 AM
Thanks for all of the replys fellas. I actually did the cut and bend technique as described above. I was using Gamy treble hooks and i was finding that i was breaking too many of them for the technique to be of much use to me. It might have been too stiff of a material the hook was made of or the fact that i wasnt doing it right.
In any case, i was doing a little bit more research and came across some VMC and Mustad split shank treble hooks. Basically one of the legs isnt soldered and you are able to clip them on. Has anyone here worked with this kind of hook before and what are your thoughts?
Posted 14 August 2007 - 11:04 AM
We cast and paint a blade bait for a company, and they have been using the VMC split treble for many years. They to have tried many different trebles and have settled on the VMC.
Tight Line Anglers Products
Posted 14 August 2007 - 01:04 PM
Let's put this into perspective on larger fish.....I have used musky baits without split rings and have had them open the screw eye in the net and thrashing at the boat because they do have considerably more leverage straight to the hook than with split rings! I learned this the hard way. Now use Wolverine #6 split rings at 220# test and never have a problem since....this should also hold true on any type of bait, it is a matter of physics. Think about it. On all my bass baits I use #3 heavy SS split rings and they catch alot of fish. I also use VMC Vanadium hooks on bass baits because they are super lightweight and laser sharp and VMC #8650 on Musky Baits. You can't go wrong with either of these hooks. Bob is right, having no split ring does not help things.