xllund

Top coat peeling, and I am stumped!

43 posts in this topic

Hello all,

Here is my problem, and if any of you can shed any light on why this occuring I would be very appreciative.

I do custom lure painting (not building) and I came up with a pattern that works very well here in central IL for muskies. Especially on Super Shad Rap baits. I strip the new bait down to bare wood (balsam) Seal the wood, apply primer, paint (acrylics) and then top coat with Flex Coat.

The top coating tends to peel away from these baits, and these baits only. It doesnt do it on the plastics or the other wood baits that I paint.

Any ideas why these baits only would do this?

Thanks in advance for any help you can lend.

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xllund,

Need info on what you are working with,

What you are using for sealer?

Type of primer?

Brand of acrylics?

Is the clearcoat bubbling then peeling?

Is the clearcoat cracking then peeling?

Has the clearcoat been compromised? Punctured etc?

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Blackjack,

I am using a product by BIN Ind. for a sealer. The sealer I am using is by Rust-O-Leum for wood products. The paint I am using is by Createx or Testors. The clearcoat has absolutely no bubbles in it (during or after the curing process) and when I ship the baits the finish is flawless. No cracks forming during use (not that I am aware of.) I believe it is after a musky has hit the bait that the problems occur. In other words, it is entirely possible that the finish has been puctured.

Feel free to e-mail for more info if you need it, Thank you.

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xllund,

I see no reason why the finish is not holding up. When I first using F/C I thought it was the cats meow. I still have not had a bait do what happened to yours, but F/C does flex and from what I have seen is not as tough as Devcon or crystal sheen. I have switched from F/C to Crystal sheen this past month. It is definetly alot harder and It also has a nice high build look to it

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Since the only variable here seems to be the fact that it happens when you use balsa wood from a shad rap, I wouldn't use balsa wood from a shad rap. Also, you don't really know for sure what the manufacturer has done to the wood during their own manufacturing process. That said, there might just be something about their process that is causing you such a problem. If you are going through the same process on other balsa wood baits without having the same problems, then clearly the manufacturer is doing something to the wood (perhaps a water sealer treatment) that you can do nothing about. I would recommend trying to duplicate the chosen bait with your own balsa wood...it is by far the easiest wood to shape (you can basically do it with no power tools whatsoever)...or just use a different brand of balsa wood lure to see if you have the same problems. I personally don't like to use balsa...it is too weak to handle the big ones without internal wire structure...it is too porous...and it is too light for a decent cast in a strong wind...basswood is my favorite...tight grain, easy to shape with minimal tools, strong enough for the lunkers, medium density for good casting with little or no added weight, porous enough to take a good water sealer soaking but not so porous it acts like a sponge...any old how, good luck to you...dbbigwood

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xllund,

For what its worth, several years ago I was using F/C on musky baits and quit for that same exact reason. I have used Devcon 2ton ever since and haven't had one problem in hundreds of baits.

Rod

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The same thing happened to me when I refinished some old Balsa Bagley's and finished them with FC. I re-did them the second time with Devcon 2T and they have held up for two years now............

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Since the only variable here seems to be the fact that it happens when you use balsa wood from a shad rap, I wouldn't use balsa wood from a shad rap. Also, you don't really know for sure what the manufacturer has done to the wood during their own manufacturing process. That said, there might just be something about their process that is causing you such a problem. If you are going through the same process on other balsa wood baits without having the same problems, then clearly the manufacturer is doing something to the wood (perhaps a water sealer treatment) that you can do nothing about. I would recommend trying to duplicate the chosen bait with your own balsa wood...it is by far the easiest wood to shape (you can basically do it with no power tools whatsoever)...or just use a different brand of balsa wood lure to see if you have the same problems. I personally don't like to use balsa...it is too weak to handle the big ones without internal wire structure...it is too porous...and it is too light for a decent cast in a strong wind...basswood is my favorite...tight grain, easy to shape with minimal tools, strong enough for the lunkers, medium density for good casting with little or no added weight, porous enough to take a good water sealer soaking but not so porous it acts like a sponge...any old how, good luck to you...dbbigwood

Did you join TU just to answer this post? Just to tell us that balsa is uncastable? Just How long does it take you to answer our pitiful luremaking questions?

Had you been just a little more timely with this post you could have saved Rapala the shame and agony of making millions and millions of dollars, not to mention their gluttonous revision of the IGFA record book. And then there is that whole balsa crankbait revolution that has been happening since the 70's. You had the veritable destiny of American bass fishing within your grasp, and let it slip away into the balsa dusted nightmare we have darkening the sun in this great country of ours today, by waiting until this time to post and bestow upon us your secret knowledge of useable and worthy crankbait timbers. But better late than never I suppose, so it in this spirit we welcome you to the hallowed pages of the Hard Baits Forum O Carving Brother. May you bless us soon with another crumb from your feast of ultimate clear-coated visions.

In Noble Pretense,

Sincerely,

Dean McClain

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CAN WE GET a AMEN from the CONGREGATION!!! SPEAK TO US BROTHER MCCLAIN!!!

I GOT A SHOOT GUN FULL OF JESUS deep down in my Balsa bones!!

Whatever you do dont tell them that you can seal it with DUCK TAPE!!! or we will open another can of worms!!:D

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Don't worry Rook, I won't spill any beans about your Duck Tape Adventures. I figure that what you do to waterfowl with that tape you invented is between you and your God.

:halo:

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Dean,

That post was just a thinly veiled attempt to stop the use of balsa for lures in order to stop the deforestation of the Amazon Basin. Oliver Stone was in production of the movie, until the writer's strike shut him down.

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Mark,

There's always more to a story than you're first led to believe. I wonder what Stone's angle is/was on the story...you know ol' Oliver wasn't there for a straight-up documentary...I keep thinking, "Follow the money, follow the money..."

Dean

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Dean...I was unaware that it was your job to criticize post replies...apparently you're the proud owner of a balsa tree farm that sells directly to rapala...I will surely run any future perspectives that I might have of any wood based materials by you and the shad rap division of rapala lures before posting them on TU...maybe someday I can become a "senior" member of this site and feel entitled to criticize posters who are simply trying to offer some help when people ask for it...as far as what you had to say regarding the rapala company and their success with making balsa wood lures, you are correct...however, if you would pay more attention when you are on your hypercritical posting reviews, you would have noticed that I never said a company with 3000 employees and millions of dollars at their disposal could not make a decent balsa wood lure...it was clear to me I was stating that I don't think balsa wood is the best choice for a guy who works in his garage and tries to make flawless lures that catch large aggressive fish...so I guess one could conclude that your criticizm is as weak as a stick of balsa wood...and to the original poster who was asking for assistance, I stand by what I have already posted in response to his request for advice

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It can be anyone's job to criticize post replies.

...maybe someday I can become a "senior" member of this site and feel entitled to criticize posters who are simply trying to offer some help when people ask for it.

May I retort: You made my critical point! You say you are simply trying to help "when people ask for it". He asked in 2003. This is 2008. I'd say your "when" is a few years late. It was clear to me that you were stating that Balsa is a poor choice for making lures because "you can't cast it". You have come on this forum that you joined last week and stated to its membership, who are some of the most respected members of the lure-building fraternity, and who have spent many thousands of words and literally years of research on this subject of balsa wood lures and completely dismissed this knowledge base of not worthy of even the slightest discussion. You have insulted the intelligence of nearly the entire membership here on a subject, that you have apparently done no research on, because if you had, you would understand that stating as a premise that you can't cast a balsa lure in the wind is literally ludicrous. Lots of guys who are members here make lots of lures in lots of garages out of balsa wood that have the characteristics of being very tough, beautiful, and cast like a dream in the wind, only you wouldn't know that because you have not asked any questions or done any research at all on this site;obvious because you are now expecting us to take your review of our collective work seriously when you have not even read the author's forwards. And to make your point you answered a thread that ended in 2003. It is not that I felt "entitled" to criticize your post; but rather compelled to do so because of your arrogant disregard for our work here. If you came here to teach us the error and ignorance of our ways, as it appears, you came poorly prepared. But I guess it doesn't really matter what I say here and now, if you're going to wait until 2010 to reply. Many of us on this site turn a stick of balsa wood into lures that catch strong aggressive fish, because we've pooled our knowledge and research into a piece of balsa that has become a veratible platform for a modern lure that takes advantage of balsa's natural buoyancy while reinforcing its fibers to make it as structurally sound as any modern lure on the market, and we are doing it in little workshops and garages world wide. If you knew anything about this site and membership you so easily insult and dismiss, you would know how we can do that. It is your loss that you don't. And all you had to do was come here and ask, and we would have all been helping you. And as for the original poster, he simply hasn't been a part of any discussion here in several years, so you can indeed stand by your response to his request for advice. Back then you would have been maybe 15% correct...but not in 2008.

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Xllund, if it were me, I wouldn't remove all the finish down to bare wood. I don't see a particular advantage in doing it, and you've run into a disadvantage.

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Dean....a bit presumptuous of you to claim on behalf of the entire membership here that I've insulted them all with my inane post...you clearly are the only one who was insulted...you, on the other hand, have succeeded in insulting anyone else who has replied to this post...and if you have ever tried to throw the puny balsa wood crank bait shown in your profile on a windy day, then you might know what the hell I'm talking about...try casting it out the next time you open your mouth and you'll see what I mean, since obviously there is an abundance of wind blowing out every time you do...guys like you can be found on every web forum...you sit there all day and monitor threads just waiting to pounce on someone to make yourself feel like you're worth something...I truly feel sorry for you...there you sit stuck to your PC all day, old, gray, wrinkled, bitter, in the waning years of your life...and all you have learned is to try to put others down in order to boost your fragile ego...why don't we just agree that you like balsa wood, and I like basswood...that way I won't be forced to call you a pompous basshole

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DBBigWoodLures

I was a bit surprised when I read Deans post, but was thinking similar thoughts. With your original post I chalked it up to the possibility, that being a new member you might not have understood the format of TU or the amazing resource that TU is.

At this point (4 post in and 3 days after joining TU) very little has been contributed to TU. Here are all 4 of your post in order.

http://www.tackleunderground.com/forum/showthread.php?p=78151#post78151

http://www.tackleunderground.com/forum/showthread.php?p=78155#post78155 This is the one that stood out to me.

http://www.tackleunderground.com/forum/showthread.php?p=78549#post78549

http://www.tackleunderground.com/forum/showthread.php?p=78616#post78616

I felt a little insulted and didn't understand the plug vs. surfboard thing.

DB Big Wood custom hand carved swimbait $40 starting bid reduced to $35

4ed9_1.JPG

DB Big Wood hand crafted swimbait lure #080005

7d5c_1.JPG

Lets turn a new leaf and go forward with a healthy discussion of helpful tips and ideas. Welcome to TU and we are all here to help and learn. Remember that what we say on TU is now a part of lure making history.

Welcome,

PB

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Dean....a bit presumptuous of you to claim on behalf of the entire membership here that I've insulted them all with my inane post...you clearly are the only one who was insulted...you, on the other hand, have succeeded in insulting anyone else who has replied to this post...and if you have ever tried to throw the puny balsa wood crank bait shown in your profile on a windy day, then you might know what the hell I'm talking about...try casting it out the next time you open your mouth and you'll see what I mean, since obviously there is an abundance of wind blowing out every time you do...guys like you can be found on every web forum...you sit there all day and monitor threads just waiting to pounce on someone to make yourself feel like you're worth something...I truly feel sorry for you...there you sit stuck to your PC all day, old, gray, wrinkled, bitter, in the waning years of your life...and all you have learned is to try to put others down in order to boost your fragile ego...why don't we just agree that you like balsa wood, and I like basswood...that way I won't be forced to call you a pompous basshole

You insulted TU because you assumed that a large corporation like Rapala makes higher quality lures from balsa wood than a custom luremaker working out of his garage, and who is informed by TU, could possibly make. If YOU were informed by TU, you'd know that this isn't so; you'd know that Balsa lends itself very well to chemical strengthening by several methods, and that the big factories are trying to catch up with us, which is difficult to do because they must build to a compeitive price point, and can't afford to take the time to take advantage of all these methods that the custom builder can do.

You can make up all the crap you want about me and choose to believe it, and I and my "fragile ego" can't stop you. But you assume a lot when you tell us that balsa lures are weak and that balsa is not a good wood for the guy in his garage building lures, and that you can't cast it in the wind. You're just wrong about that, and, my "puny balsa wood crank bait" shown in my profile.

Dean

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