42 replies to this topic
Posted 08 September 2007 - 01:56 PM
My paint is cracking when I fish my lures down to 80'- 100' or more and I'm looking to find out if any one knows what I can do to paint or coat my lures so I can fish them this deep.I have built them out of different woods (soft and hard) I use enamel paints and a lure /jig finish(clear)
Posted 08 September 2007 - 03:15 PM
Most likely the lures are absorbing water, expanding and cracking the finish. You need a tougher clearcoat. I suggest Devcon Two Ton epoxy or similar clear epoxy for your topcoat. Be sure to coat over all hook hanger holes, etc to eliminate water infiltration.
Posted 08 September 2007 - 07:52 PM
GVF- Your lures probably have something similar to the ‘Bends’. When you send them down to 100’ they have about 4 times atmospheric pressure (60lb psi) exerted on them. Although this is ‘all round’ pressure, any small hole is going to allow amounts of water to enter the lure at 60 psi and compressing the air inside, you then quickly retrieve the lure and you even without a hole you are putting the finish under a lot of stress, you get water/ air @ 60 psi trying to get out again, so there is a lot of flexing going on here. Flexing something as brittle a lure coat, means cracks. If you are using epoxy- Devcon etc, maybe you could use a more ‘Maluable’ coating like Nites Lure coat.
This is just a humble attempt from a firefighter, (we get into pressures quite a bit) to explain this problem -Try standing on your lure and see the effect. Maybe checking this site out may help - http://www.howstuffworks.com/question101.htm
Good luck with it .Pete
Posted 09 September 2007 - 12:12 AM
MAKE SURE you wipe your lures off with a tack rag after you paint them sometimes this causes cracks and if you get that pressure Hazmail is talking about im sure dust is not your friend.. get all the dust off before you clear coat them with a DUPONT TACK RAG that is what I use... even a tiny bit will screw up a great paint job.. no matter what kind of clear you use.. even DEVCON.. Im just adding to Bob and Hazmail's advice.. they know alot more than I!! I just know if you get some dust on your lure it will show up on the clear and cause it to crack later..
Posted 09 September 2007 - 01:43 AM
Hazmail, I think that your solution is spot on. Something that can take the deformation under pressure and bounce back without cracking.
The actual problem I feel was incorrect. If a small fault in the surface of the finish allowed water in, then the ingress of water would prevent further compression. In fact another solution would be to drill many small holes and deliberately let the water in. Of course the lure will waterlog and subsequently the paint will separate and the finish peel.
But as I stated in the parallel post, the best solution is to construct the body from an incompressible material like plastic. Wood contains a lot of air, if you must use wood then use the densest, heaviest wood that you can find.
If I was fishing that deep, I probably would not put a finish on the lure as it won't be visible at that depth. I might even consider not priming and let the body soak.
Another solution might be to just go with the deformation. Perhaps a vacuumed bath of liquid latex on balsa bodies. Followed by a thick latex coat. Finish with a paint that can take the deformation and a suitable top coat. Just my thoughts on the subject.
Posted 09 September 2007 - 10:05 AM
Thanks for the replies,
Bobp I don’t think I left any place for water to enter the lure and waterlog the lure and if they are in the water for only 15 minutes the paint cracks.
Hazmil ,I do understand the problem is atmospheric pressure that is compressing the finish and or paint on the lure I have made some from soft wood(cedar ,pine) and some on hard wood(basswood) and they both cracked. I have store bought wooden lures that I have fished that deep with no effects (lymans). I was hoping to find out what they use but some secrets are hard to get. I think it’s the clear coat that has to be tough enough to withstand the pressure or malleable enough to move. I will have to try both and try some on plastic stock
I have also thought about using a stain on the lures since the color isn’t as important at that depth.
The clear I used was not a 2 part finish and I thinking that the finish is most important to get that depth
Posted 09 September 2007 - 01:38 PM
Use devcon 2 ton and it will stop the problem. Listen to Bob, water seapage is your problem. There is no way the paint and finish will crack unless water is getting to your bait. I frequently fish for lake trout on downriggers with my cedar baits at 100 ft depths. The finish and the paint never crack.
Posted 09 September 2007 - 01:59 PM
A modest amount of water absorption will cause wood fibers to expand and crack finish, and running lures at 100+ ft is a severe test of water absorption. Crankbait clearcoats don't have much resistance to wood expansion. Notwithstanding several atmospheres of pressure, I still think toughening the clearcoat is the first place to look. I'm having a hard time believing your little submarines (especially the hardwoods) are reaching "crush depth" at 100 ft
Posted 09 September 2007 - 04:54 PM
Do you have a close up image of the cracks?...fracture, spidering, veining, dimpling, impact, central or multiple points, etc,...a magnified look at the lure cracks will offer answers.
Posted 10 September 2007 - 09:35 AM
The cracks run the length of the lure and are fractures.The lures were made to hunt Kokenee and I have been fishing them off a downrigger at 80' and have one or two I droped down deeper(90') I have some 6" lures I use for Macks and those have been down to 120'
I have ordered some Devcon 2 ton resin and will be giving that a go any tips on how to apply it to the lures, brush, dip???
Posted 10 September 2007 - 11:19 AM
Alot of guys fish my Assassin at close too 200 ft depths at times so I have some experiance here..Both good and bad..LOL.Everybody is right..it is water getting in under your top coat and or paint.At those depths,water just doesn't soak in, it is litterly pushed in...Your thinking to your self..I've got a good top coat on..doesn't matter..the water is getting in at the the edges of the face of your lure..(Trust me on this!!).Epoxies don't like edges,and you need to be rounded off those edges too get a good seal.Also make sure you put some epoxy on your eyescrews too seal them aswell..Nathan
Posted 10 September 2007 - 11:50 AM
Would a better wood sealer solve most of the problem with the water getting to the wood?
Posted 10 September 2007 - 12:10 PM
Actually,it possible for water to get under your top coat..and not under your paint at all..during my learning process with this..(which is still going on..LOL) I had some baits come back that had the top coat and paint color blown out..but still had my white base coat intact..The preasures at those depths in unbelievable..Nathan
Posted 10 September 2007 - 12:37 PM
Dilute the Devcon 2T 50% with acetone or lacquer thinner to use it as a waterproof undercoat on bare wood. Brush it on undiluted for your clearcoat. It's critical to mix it thoroughly. I do it in a jar lid lined with tin foil and mix with a piece of plastic. I mix enough for 2 lures at a time. You have about 5 min. before it gets too thick to brush. No panic, but keep things moving. Don't overbrush (it makes for bubbles), apply with the idea that you're "laying it on" but be sure the paint is wetted out all over. Devcon is a thick clearcoat and has excellent leveling properties, the best I've seen on any clearcoat. The lure needs to be alternately hung up/down for the first 30 mins or so to prevent the epoxy from migrating. Rotating on a lure "dryer" is easier if you have one. You can clean the brush with acetone or lacquer thinner. Once cured, epoxy can't be removed with solvents.
Posted 10 September 2007 - 12:54 PM
I reccomend warming your raw wood lures to about 150 deg F prior to coating with a base sealer. 5-10 minutes in a toaster oven will suffice. The air in the wood will expand during the heating process. as you apply the sealer the wood will cool causing the sealer to be drawn into the wood fibers. I did this recently with some Muskie lures and noticed a much firmer wood surface.
Posted 10 September 2007 - 04:25 PM
I dont think it has anything to do with the topcoat, just the air inside the wood expanding and busting the topcoat. I have no idea how to overcome it though other than maybe trying a "foamy" or featherlite lure rather than wood.
Posted 10 September 2007 - 06:53 PM
Then explain to me why my baits don't do the same thing when I am fishing the same depths. Do you think I am not telling the truth???? It is inferior top coat, trust me on this.....
Posted 10 September 2007 - 07:05 PM
Dwain, The air in the bait is compressed at depth. When the bait is retrieved, the air returns to its original volume, it cannot expand any further.
Posted 10 September 2007 - 10:54 PM
From here, it looks like a good start would be a decent quailty topcoat, with a bit of build, it appears to be pretty thin whatever it is. Like every one is saying it's probably the water, weather it is forced in or sucked in , it is going to bust any finish. I have seen a wood chip bust a cast concrete slab 6" thick, it's how they split marble- granite etc, wood is just an amazing 'product' good and bad. And after all wood expanding is how they have kept (keep) sailing ships afloat for god knows how long, before that Ark, they reckon. pete
Posted 10 September 2007 - 10:59 PM
What steps are you going through after you shape you bait?
Sealer, what are you using to seal your baits?
Primer, what are you priming with?
Paint, what type of paint are you using?
Topcoat, What did you use?
When did you install your hardware?
What type of wood are you using with these 2 baits?
This should help us to resolve your problem.
Your photos of the damaged baits were great. Sorry about the cracks, because I know you put a lot of work into these.