Whats more important, paint or action ?
44 replies to this topic
Posted 19 September 2007 - 10:24 AM
Okay, I can't really let this subject go LOL
Look at the sense a fish has to help it forage:
1. Lateral line
The lateral line senses vibrations so that'd be the action of our lures. Vibration comes from the moving lure, they can be high or low frequency. Rattles create sound and sound is a vibration too, so fishes actually hear and feel sound.
Fishes see too, so what is the overwhelming reason to say color doesn't play a role at all to attract the fish. By color we would be implying anything that attracts the fishes eye-sight --color, flash, silhouette, and think deeper --- color is represented by different wavelengths of light. We human see a very limited portion of it. Now can fishes see into the infra zone or the ultra-violet zone. Have anyone experimented with these colors? Unless u're fishing blind fishes, then you can't omit the importance of color.
So I'd like to reemphasize my point earlier. If we make a lure, we want to take advantage of all the senses a fish has and not be disillusioned with just accomplishing a good action. A good lure will be encompassing all of the above.
(I didn't mention smell, well just slap some scent onto ur lures if you wanna cover that too)
Posted 19 September 2007 - 11:24 AM
Color can certainly come in to play. However, I think it is the basic colors that make a difference (i.e., yellow over white, black over silver) rather than having an extremely detailed paint scheme. The more I make my own stuff, the more I realize that action, size, and profile are so much more important than a detailed paint pattern. I have several proto-types that are just white primer. They worked so well that I still fish them as is (no paint). I've had a number of days that those primer plugs out fished anything else. I also have plugs with hardly any paint left, large scratches in the paint, and hook damage to the plug. The paint is not pretty any more. They still catch just fine.
Think of it this way, if given the choice between fishing a lure with a good action, but a basic paint job, or the same lure, but the action is not as good and the paint is better. Which do you chose? I'll take the action.
Posted 19 September 2007 - 02:05 PM
LP, thank you for your well-thought out reply...why not give the fish the whole package. I've had days bass fishing when action could be in a general ballpark, as in a lure wiggling at a certain depth, but if you didn't hit the color, it was the difference between a great day and a nothing day, this borne out by 2 people in the boat...many times.
Andrew brings up a great point that a couple of us touched on before also, and that is profile! Predatory fish often lock in on a particular forage, and profile is the first and often key visual stimulus indicating the kind of forage. To a bass, long and thin is going to signal a softray baitfish, high in fat and protein, easy to swallow and quickly digestible, whereas short and bulky is going to more often signal a sunfish, spiney-rayed, and harder to swallow for a small bass, a threat during the spawn, and more suited to a spring metabolism and availability. You ever wonder why a jig catches a larger average size bass? It's a great sunfish profile, and often sunfish color also, and if you don't believe me ask Mark Davis, and a lot of other savvy pros.
Good ol' primer white, I do like to enhance mine though with some irridescence, eyes, a little red in the gill and throat area, and a contrasting stripe on the back in the color of the forage that the profile of my lure most resembles, sometimes.
And I've caught a lot of fish on black lures too. Sometimes it's all you need to get the job done. And sometimes not. Why should you ever limit your thinking to the importance of a single parameter, when you can consider everything that acts upon a fish's total perception, and up the odds in your favor?
Posted 19 September 2007 - 07:14 PM
[quote name='LaPala']color is represented by different wavelengths of light. We human see a very limited portion of it. Now can fishes see into the infra zone or the ultra-violet zone. Have anyone experimented with these colors? Unless u're fishing blind fishes, then you can't omit the importance of color.[quote]
In Sweden theres been somewhat of an hype over UV color on salmon stuff. I know something is working since i´ve tested it on some lures & i´va caught more on the lures with it at times .
Now you got something to think over LaPala
Posted 19 September 2007 - 10:08 PM
Swede, weren't that suppose to be our little secret? I hint at it and you let the cat out of the bag.
Posted 19 September 2007 - 11:16 PM
I bet different species of fish vary in which bait attributes are critical, important, nice to have, or meaningless. Talking about largemouth bass, I've seen lots of "favorite lures" with almost all the paint eaten off of them - but still catching bass like crazy. That suggests color is probably not the most critical factor for this species. Sure, better is better. If EVERY lure factor is right you'll catch more fish. Ok, you're loading the boat on a #5 Threadfin Shad Shadrap. You get broke off. What do you tie on now: Any #5 Shadrap you have in the boat, or a Norman DD-22 in Threadfin Shad? It isn't hard to answer.
Posted 20 September 2007 - 04:03 AM
I'll second that, have been there many a time. pete
Posted 20 September 2007 - 07:08 AM
La Pala /Swede- This probably should be in a new topic, but I suppose it comes under ‘color’ and to a layman like me, is pretty exciting stuff. In this country and I suspect yours (with high UV) ,we get a ‘UV rating’ with the daily weather report (for sun burn etc). I now carry a UV meter in the boat when I’m fishing and try and find some sort of relationship between (UV reading, colors and fluro colors) and that old stand by, “clear day bright colors, dull day dull colors’ .This is pretty whacko, I know, but we have to start somewhere and like most things in lure making it keeps us off the streets.
This is a whole new world, (although partially hidden) they say long wave ultraviolet is the one that passes easiest (compared to other UV wave lengths) through glass and plastic, does it penetrate water? I assume it does. How does refraction affect it? Do we disregard all these fancy D2T and DN clears and leave lures bare? What about UV inhibitors, which some quality clears have, this would cancel UV out? Do I stick some UV or ‘Polarized’ film on the lure, so vertically we see one color, horizontally we see another? (I like this idea). Does this work on fish cones/eyes?
Far from being an expert in this area, I’m glad to see others, with far more knowledge and intellect, are looking in this direction. Are there enough years left?? pete
Posted 21 September 2007 - 10:52 AM
Pete, Maybe if someone start a thread on color we could go to some length about it. Lets keep this to action or color.
There will always be different opinions about this as we are also talking about different base conditions. Clarity of water, sunny or cloudy day, target fish species,...etc etc. We could do it this way maybe we'd get more conclusive answers.
Action or Color or Both?
1. Gin clear water, sunny day, man made dam, fishing for bass
2. Gin clear water, sunny day, river system, fishing for walleye
3.Murky water, overcast, man made 1 acre pond, fishing for catfish
..... and so on and so on
Posted 29 September 2007 - 05:45 PM
I find this an excellent subject open to much debate.
For me I find both action and color play an equally important role.
My favorite lure of all time is called a BullDawg. The action is amazing and has always produced the best for me both in quality and quantities. When one color is not getting me results I don’t change lures I just change colors. The 3 best colors are white, black and blue. These are solid colors, and there aren’t even different colors for the eyes.
So the lure’s action is a proven fact and changing the colors of the exact same lure is also a proven fact.
Now a year ago I had gotten pretty frustrated with this lure. They are not cheap and I target pike and musky with them. The body is a soft plastic. Mix soft plastic with fish that are very aggressive and have lots of very sharp teeth and you’ll often only catch one fish before the lure is virtually destroyed.
This was the turning point for me to start developing and hand crafting my own lures based upon the action of the BullDawgs. Turn the clock forward to today, several dozen hit and miss lure designs and I now how my very own designed hand crafted lure.
Of course if it wasn’t for this amazing exchange of lesson’s learned found on this site this would have simply never happened. Up until just very recently my design was considered a moderate success. I was catching fish but not ones I would have considered worthy of bragging or talking about.
I can’t help but to be continually impressed, sometimes to the point of awe, at the craftsmanship of the lures I see people on this site make. My artistic abilities are limited to somewhat legible stick men so I stick with what has worked for me in the past and mostly paint my lures a solid color.
So lets get back to this debate for a moment. I’m jumping in for 2 reasons. The first being I made myself a promise that once I was a lure maker that catches fish I would give back to community that gave me the knowledge and skills required to become a lure maker and second to add my 2 cents.
All summer I was making prototypes until it all finally clicked and now I am making working models. This lure is 100% my own design and not so much copied from but influenced by the BullDawgs. I have no skills at painting so I just did a few coats of white and took a paint brush and added a red stripe. I gave some to my friends and asked them to give them a try.
Now this fish was caught on one of my working models and, in my humble opinion, proves I am a successful lure designer and that a simply colored lure catches nice fish. She measured 42 inches.
Posted 29 September 2007 - 08:55 PM
I agree with you, that monster certainly does qualify you as a sucessful lure designer, congratulations.
It looks like a combination of hard bait and soft bait, using the soft bait as the active component. I would love to see a close up pic.
This thread has taught me that action is paramount, but if the lure is the wrong colour, the fish can get fussy. I too have witnessed this phenomenom, fishing for perch. They are known for preferring red. My tests appeared to confirm this fact. All the trout that I caught were on a silver and black striped lure and the lime green caught nothing. All the lures were the same size and same model.
This test was performed over five evenings, last October. I rotated the lures every 20 mins. Hardly conclusive evidence, but a definite trend.
Posted 29 September 2007 - 09:49 PM
Actually to my surprise the whole bait has action.
It wasn't planned that way. My intention was for the wooden part to run true and straight and the tail to provide "the action" but by some fluke the body had a bit of a wobble to it so the whole lure has a very dynamic moton.
Once I am at a point where I am ready to show it off I will, but not just yet, one more thing to work out but I am now at a point where I feel I can offer up points and tips to others on this board.
Fishing is just at the peak period up here in Canada for pike and musky so once there's ice in I'll have the time to add to the vast knowledge of this board.
Hopefully we'll still have open water in December, the girls (fish) are starting to fatten up this time of year.
Posted 04 October 2007 - 08:24 PM
Thanks for all the feedback, and i still want action as a first choice when im out on a lake, then when i find the right color, i often repaint the plugs that have the right action the color im most comfortable with for different sitiutations. I guess it never ends,
Posted 04 October 2007 - 08:31 PM
One more point as i get older and more blind is i started painting the tops of my topwater plugs red so i can see where the heck they are. Im tired if seeing a fish swim by and saying to my friends "look hee's got somthing in his mouth, then realizing its my lure !!! also out west stripers and white sea bass are suckers for pearl white, and calicos in mexico are suckers for red white red, if that helps anybody.
Posted 23 November 2007 - 02:00 PM
Without a doubt, action (and shape/size) before paint. I've caught so many fish on my baits while testing them out in the bare wood stage. The size/shape and action is what will do most of the triggering on active fish. Now there are times when a certain pattern can outproduce others. Perch would be a good example of this where I live and fish. I'm pretty well known for painting realistic styled baits but I spend the most time during production on making certain that they swim right before they ever see a drop of paint.
Posted 31 January 2008 - 12:30 PM
I'm new to this site and I find this topic of discussion a very interesting one. I fish for Largemouth Bass and live in NC. I am by no means ready to join the Classic, but do consider myself a bass fishing enthusiast and just recently started painting plugs for pleasure. Needless to say I've been thinking alot about color & action of plugs here recently.
I guess my two cents on the subject would have to say that both action and color are equally important when fishing for largemouth. Each may play an important role over the other on any particular day, but the inconsistencies day to day are very consistent. What I mean by this is that each fish within a species, I believe, follow certain instinctual habits. Those are consistent, but I think they also have daily habits and those are very inconsistent and change from week to week or day to day or hour to hour even.
I believe that a largemouth, on some days, will bite anything that comes in front of them...regardless of color or action and I think that same fish can become very picky the very next day or even later in the same day. We all know that there are many factors in fishing...what type of moon, barometric pressure, rain or shine, clouds or clear, stained or clear water, outside temp., water temp., time of year, time of day, and the list goes on and on and on. I think all of these factors determine action or color or both on that particular day, but that may be different the next day.
I guess, for myself, trying to place importance on action or color over the other is like trying to pick my favorite between mid spring or mid fall.
Posted 31 January 2008 - 08:13 PM
depending on whats needed. we do trolling cranks. its action then color.. bottom line is go fish period the fish will let ya know.
Posted 31 January 2008 - 10:56 PM
Hey 6 feet are you a FORD or Chevy guy!! I got the lure your lookin for!!
Posted 31 January 2008 - 11:44 PM
In my large mouth bass fishing I've found that these two basic lure attributes, action and color, are important at different times and in different circumstances.
Action is key on reaction baits, lures that move quickly and elicit an instinctive reflex strike. A lure going by so quickly that the bass either grabs it or misses out. Fat bass grab it, skinny bass don't and starve.
Color is critical in slower moving baits, which are typically fished deeper, and trick bass into thinking they are food items. At that point, an erratic movement can trigger a reflex strike, because the bass thinks the prey is escaping.
Aggressive bass will nail a fast moving lure. I've found it has more to do with the season than the individual fish.
Fish in a cold front or high pressure situation, especially in clear water, will follow a slow moving lure, but won't strike unless the color is right. That's why, out here in SoCal, we fish drop shot and split shot and light Carolina rigs with weightless plastics when it's tough. But in late winter, spring, and summer, we can throw chatterbaits with the best of the "good old boys" from the southeast, and hammer the agressive, high metabolism bass.
Action in a soft plastic, if it's subtle, like the Basstrix paddletail or the fluke, can combine the two, but, even then, you may get bit for different reasons during different seasons on the same bait.
Posted 01 February 2008 - 09:52 AM
Very well said mark...down here there are certain times of the year, like now, when one week the lows will be in the 20's and the highs in the low 40's, but the next week it will be lows in the 40's and highs in the 60's. Who knows what the next week will bring...these are tough games to play with fish. These are the reasons why I agree with you about action and color both being important for different presentations and situations. There have been days on High Rock Lake that you could put your boat in with the brightest sun imaginable and temps in the mid 40s early in the morning and by the afternoon you couldn't see the carpet in the boat because of snow and freezing temperatures. Better yet the drought we had that caused it to drop almost 24 feet within a week or two...being a shallow lake, fishing was truly crazy. Bt we certainly don't deal with the pressure that you guys deal with and all of the deep clear water.
Either way there is nothing like going out in spring when you can flip a jig into a bush and battle out a hungry 8 pounder...I know, I know, 8 pounds is nothing to you guys that have 19 pound hybrids, but down here we have mitchell reports on fish...hehehehe