39 replies to this topic

[UPMuskyr]

Thanks Spike...I do have some experience with cartridge type respirators as I work in a papermill and have been part of there Emergency Response teams for about 20years, our Hazmat team gets annually fit tested, I didn't look to far into it as far as what type of cartridge would be the best application and thought someone might have the answer without me checking farther...Randy

[sagacious]

Some excellent information in this thread about lead alloys, and troubleshooting your lead-pouring problems. Required reading for anyone who's getting into pouring lead.
http://www.tackleund...ead.php?t=11958

[sagacious]

Just about everything you wanted to know about fluxing, all in one place:
http://www.tackleund...-melt-flux.html

[jimcline]

Hey guys, just a few words on safety again. I know this subject has been beat to death but I feel the need to say it again. I just talked to a friend that runs a local bait shop and he told me that a couple of guys that used to supply his sinkers and jigs and such for years had both died. And the cause? You guessed it, LEAD POISONING! They poured lead for years without proper ventilation and without wearing gloves. What makes this so strange is the two didn't even know each other. So I guess all I'm trying to say is, "BE CAREFUL" Most of us probably don't handle lead enough for it to matter, but why take chances. I know I've personally rethought how I do it. Just follow a few simple safety rules and we should all be alright. I don't know any of you folks but I would surely not want to lose any of you. Just my . Take care. JIM

[UPMuskyr]

Thanks Jim, sad news, I try to take as much precaution as I can but who knows if it enough...Randy

[HybridMX6]

Hello. I'm new here, but not new to pouring. I've got a few small scars here or there, but I've got a nice nasty one on my stomach from over a year ago. It was stupid, and I was obviously NOT being safe, but what happened was I was making jigs, and had a lot of crap on the top of my lead in the pot. Well, I decided to clean it off with a spoon that I use just for this purpose. I got the spoon, and started scooping. I sort of "squeeze" it between the spoon and the side of the lead pot to drain out any good lead, and I guess when I did it I moved the spoon just a hair. As I went to relocate the spoon with the bad stuff in it the stuff slid off of the spoon. It landed on my workbench on a ledge, which then directed it at my body. My dumb *ss wasn't wearing a shirt, so when it splattered onto me it just burned the crap out of me.
Oh well, that won't ever happen again. I always wear full clothing now, shoes included, and always take extra care when cleaning off the top of the molten lead, making sure it stays over the pot and not over my workbench.

[walleye4]

I just invested in a respirator for the 1st time. I don't pour enough very often to probably have to worry but I still got one. I got one @ Menards that is rated for lead. I also wear long sleeves, safety glasses, and a ball cap I just leave in the garage.

I used to work in a battery factory and once got a high blood lead level. Not a good time!!!!!!!!!

All the info that has been posted here is good ideas and I learned a few things that I will start doing.

Thanks,

[daved]

We pour 20-40 tons a year in lead so i have seen a lot of things happen.Maybe 4 years ago when new lead was cheap we bought in lead pigs & melted the bars,very simple.Now with new lead at nearly 2 dollars a pound we buy scrap.Now your talkin lots of dangers & problems.
One post i seen somebody said have a fire extinguisher near by.Never ever spray a liquid on molten metal.It will blow up in your face.Either smother the fire with a steel top as i sometimes do or pour DRY sand on it & that usually ends the fires.
In our shop now i have old plumbers lead,roofing lead,pipes you name it & it all catches on fire or can go boom in a heart beat.We have a roof ventilation fan that draws out all smoke & fumes.i see some small stores that do this in their back rooms,crazy.
One problem using scrap lead is the consitancy or make up of the lead is always changing & that affects my employee's when they pour the lead into silicone molds.Most times you have to make adjustments to speed,pressure or heat.
One good thing about lead if you get hit by some it starts cooling as soon as it leaves the pot so burns are not that bad.We pour zinc & that stays 800 degree's for a while & it will burn you bad.Tin & Bismuth also not bad to deal with.
For do it molds most guys i know having troubles is the lead is not hot enough.Might need to be near 900 degree's.Also i hear a lot of smoking your mold.When we have problems we just dust molds with talc.Very simple helps the lead flow better but just turn the heat up.When we pour small 1/100oz or 1/64 oz jigs heat must be 930 degree's...
If you have questions on lead email us.There are a lot more things i can say.........

One question what do you use to core out worm sinkers to make the hole.i tried wire,nickeled wire,black nickel wire it all sticks.Teflon is best but i have none in the shop...........

Dave

[sagacious]

daved said:

...
One post i seen somebody said have a fire extinguisher near by.Never ever spray a liquid on molten metal.It will blow up in your face.Either smother the fire with a steel top as i sometimes do or pour DRY sand on it & that usually ends the fires.
In our shop now i have old plumbers lead,roofing lead,pipes you name it & it all catches on fire or can go boom in a heart beat.
...

Dave,
Thank you for the feedback.

A fire extinguisher suitable for having in a shop or garage is B and C rated. B (flammable liquid) and C (electrical fire) rated extinguishers are generally dry chemical extinguishers, and safe to aim at anything that's on fire in your shop-- and that would include flames in the vicinity of molten lead.

However, note that controlled flame is often of considerable benefit during the refining and fluxing of lead, and all lead-melting and refining should be done in a location where these flames will not present any hazard of a structure fire (your example of refining lead in a back store-room is an excellent example of unsafe practice). But as always, even in the safest of situations, mistakes and accidents can happen-- and having a fire extinguisher available can prevent property damage and risk to life and limb. A small fire can spread to a building, and a dedicated fire extinguisher is needed to stop the spread. Just this week, I heard of an incident where a man melting lead burned his barn to the ground and lost tens of thousands of dollars of equipment. Common sense and a fire extinguisher goes a long way-- even these days. Never pour lead, use open flame, or operate an electrically-heated furnace without a BC-rated fire extinguisher nearby. Forewarned is forearmed.

Quote

One question what do you use to core out worm sinkers to make the hole.i tried wire,nickeled wire,black nickel wire it all sticks.Teflon is best but i have none in the shop...........

Dave

You have one answer in your post above. I dip the polished stainless core-wires in powdered mica before putting them in the molds. That prevents the lead from gripping the wire. A post in the wire-baits forum relating your query will undoubtedly attract more responses, as this is a thread is restricted to lead melting safety and techniques.

Hope this helps, good luck and stay safe.
sagacious

[WidowMaker]

I dont generally wear leather gloves when i pour due to them being bulky. I wear a cotton work glove on my left hand and dont wear a glove on my right hand. Im always holding the mold in my left hand while both loading hooks and operating the pour lever with my right hand.

I try to load hooks into molds as quickly as possible while keeping the molds hot so i dont really have time to take gloves on and off my right hand between pour cycles.

Ive found that with practice it is possible to hold the mold handles on the ends as opposed to gripping them in the middle. This feels a little akward at first but once you get used to doing it it takes a lot of the worry out of getting splashed. Ive had a little lead splash back onto the cotton glove and yes it is hot but ive never had it blister me or burn through the glove. The simple fact is that if you work with melted lead that sooner or later you are going to get a little bit on you and you will also get blistered from time to time. The main thing im concerned with is eliminating the possibility of larger amounts of lead from being splashed.

I have a seperate table set aside for pouring lead and i have only what is necessary for pouring on that table. The more miscellaneous junk that cluters up the table means more of a possibility for something to go wrong. The table is built of heavy wood and is bolted in a stationary position to the floor in such a manner that it cant be bumped or knocked out of position. My lead pots are bolted to seperate pieces of plywood and the plywood is c-clamped to the top of that table. The power cords going to the pots are zip tied to the surface of the plywood in such a manner that nothing can snag on the cord in such a manner as to move the pot.

I do not have a fire estinguisher because i have removed all potentially flamable materials and chemicals well beyond the area i am pouring in. Ive dropped melted lead with a spoon onto ply wood several times and about all its done was smoke and scorch the surface of the wood.

I keep several four inch sections of cardboard paper towel insert tubes handy so if the pot starts leaking out the pour section i can place them under the leak to contain the lead splashing. When one fills up i put it the entire piece cardboard lead and all into the pot and let the cardboard burn off.

[Smallie]

Gloves for Glory make a real thin, goatskin leather glove that will protect your hand and still allow some dexterity.

Gloves For Glory Welding Glove

[rustyman]

Thanks for your input fellas. I just bought a lee pot with pour top for making wire harnesses for muskie baits. I have never worked with melting lead but I'm making a list from all your good ideas. I have a bag of lead shot for reloading, will this be fine to melt? I am using the lead to tie in the hook with the harness and for weighting. I will read on the flux issue but do I need to worry about it? Using .051 stainless wire. Thanks guys, Rusty

[orionn1]

Here is the hazard of getting too comfortable/taking lead for granted

third degree burn,I wearing shorts was. I tried sitting down because my back and legs get sore after pouring for a while. The benefit of standing though is you can move quickly to get out of the way if lead splatter. Since I was sitting I couldn't move quickly when the lead poured out of the mold. What happened was the mold was extremely hot as well as the lead so it didn't set/cool quickly like when I opened the mold have of the lead was still liquid. It ran right of the edge of the table and right on my leg and stupid me wearing shorts. I usually pour wearing pants and bbq apron gloves mask/respirator and goggles.
hope this helps
rob

Edited by orionn1, 24 November 2010 - 12:15 AM.

[orionn1]

Hey guys I have been doing some research on mask and lead safety. I contacted 3m and got the following email response back from them:

The 6000 with P100 filters would be recommended for lead dust and fume (from melting and pouring). The facepiece selection is based on airborne concentration. The 6000 half ask with the P100 filters will reduce your exposure by 10 times when the respirator has been properly fitted, used and maintained. Without the exposure concentration I cannot confirm that the 6000 is the proper respirator.

For technical information you may call 1-800-243-4630



Craig E. Colton, CIH | Division Scientist-Regulatory Affairs
3M Occup Health & Env Safety
3M Center, Building 235-2E-91 | St. Paul, MN 55144
Office: 651 733 6297 | Fax: 651 736 7344 cecolton@mmm.com | www.3M.com | www.3M.com/Occsafety



Also on lead safety and cleanup I found this info from niosh
http://www.skcinc.com/prod/763-001.asp

it is the only approved clean up kit approved by the cdc and niosh
there is also a lead detection kit on the same site
Hope this helps guys
robert

[EricF]

Hey Guys, New here - great forum, don't make a lot of baits - but I'm posting because I'm a toxicologist by training and just happen to run a state childhood lead poisoning prevention program. There have been some very good posts about what to worry about for lead poisoning here already. The only thing I have to add is that it take very little lead dust to poison a child. We've had cases of dust being brought in from work sites or hobby sites and contaminating a house and poisoning a kid. Having coveralls you use when working with lead and leaving them in your workshop is a good practice.

Secondly, depending on what state you live in, you may have access to lead dust tests. You can call your state lab and see if they have them. They are cheap (<$20 up here) - it is basically a like an alcohol wipe that you rub on your workbench (or whatever other site you want to test). That can act as a validation of your practices - are you REALLY doing all the stuff that you say you are doing?

Finally, if you work with lead, you should do a blood lead test every so often. Don't remember what the recommendations are - yearly or so - but the upshot is that the effects of the lead depend on dose. Like booze - a little makes you drunk, more makes you very drunk, more makes you vomit, enough will kill you. Catching lead when the levels are low in your blood will allow you to modify your techniques to reduce your exposure. You don't want your family discovering you had lead poisoning when they are burying you. Not particularly fair to your family or useful to you at that point. It is cheap, docs do it all the time, and it is a simple test.

[Vodkaman]

Eric. Thanks for joining up and providing quality input.

Dave

[Clint M]

Man i guess this topic wouldve been handy a couple days ago. Eric that is fantastic. Also like that orion went the extra mile. Thank you both. Will lead fumes give you a headache?

[mark poulson]

One important thing to consider is that vented fumes and dust go somewhere.
If you vent to your yard, or your neighbor's yard, you are just relocating the problem.
I don't pour any more, so this is just a heads up.
The last time I poured, Nixon was President.

[TSuprum]

Don't use sinkers used in saltwater. I learned the hard way years ago.

They go BOOM and leave little white dots all over your arm

[shastaron]

I seem to be having trouble getting the right temperature. Seems like I am either to hot or not hot enough. How do you guys determine you are at the right temperature?