[philB]

Hi
I can now say, having spread my wings and attended the TU meet in April, that I have been to America and fished. I thought I would put down some of my fishing observations.

I love my Pike fishing here in the UK and have an interest naturally with Muskie, when a pike angler fishes in the UK he very rarely picks up a lure rod but will head out armed with natural baits some of which are not so natural. It is accepted here that if you wish to catch a real big fish then you will place a static bait on the bottom of the river or lake and wait this is because our big Northern pike are scavengers before predators. That bait can be a natural fish present in the water but can also be alien and sea fish are a popular choice amongst the pikers here especially oily sea fish such as Mackrel and Sardine (having said that the British record Northern Pike is a 46.5 lb fish caught on a Creek Chub Pikey Lure !!!). How many American anglers would consider this type of fishing for Muskie ???, has anyone tried static deadbaits for Muskie or is it just the accepted way that to fish for Muskie you use a lure ??.

Another thing struck me in a big way. A much larger percentage of Americans fish or hunt, it is a way of life in the States and everything seems to embrace these pastimes. You guys are privileged with access to these amazing places such as the Lake we fished, Pomme de Terre, if this water was here the authorities would do their utmost to keep folk away from it or impose too many restrictions. A 'for instance' is our Lake District, a lot of the lakes in Cumbria you cannot even take a powered craft on to them !! if you want to get to the other end which is maybe 4 miles you have to row there or haul the boat out and drive down to put it back in again. Public access is heavily restricted in the UK and you are more likley to see signs saying 'NO FISHING', 'TRESSPASERS WILL BE PROSECUTED' or 'PRIVATE KEEP OUT'.

In the UK we have to purchace every year a rod and line licence, this does not give you the right to fish only to use a rod and line for fishing and covers 2 rods, if you wish to use more than 2 rods then you have to buy a second licence the cost of these annualy is £ 25.00 ( around $ 48.00).

During our stay we visited Bass Pro in Springfield and had a great day out there I may add, but although there was more fishing tackle than I had ever seen in my life there, very little of it resembled the tackle you would see in an angling store here in the UK. I did not see a single high quality centrepin reel for instance, no 14' rods, no 'Poles' and no 0.5lb breaking strain monofilament line, the list could go on and on. What did suprise and delight me were the costs of equipment, I kid you not everything to me was half price and less, I could have bought a container full, shipped it across to the UK and doubled my investment easily.

I wish I could have made my trip 30 years ago then I would have had the time to fish in other locations in America but as it is I could not not at the time as family commitments prevented it and to be honest it never entered my head then. I am still hoping to wet a line in the USA again before too long and would love to try some of the UK methods of fishing just for the hell of it to see if it got any results.

[hazmail]

Hi Phil- I will second that, I could not imagine half the U.S population sitting on the edge of a lake with those weird 20'+ 'Coarse Fishing' poles, firing corn with a slingshot, out into the lake either - This type of fishing is becoming more popular here too, can't imagine me having the patience, something you poms are renowned for. Virgin Airlines are opening up a route to the US @about $1200, which is about 1/2 what I paid, might make it again. pete

[KcDano]

Yes there are plenty of people here in the states who use live bait and real critters. In Florida they once used large shiners( a type of minnow) to fish for bass, I don't know if that is still is the case or not. The nightcrawler worm has caught about every variety of freshwater fish you can think of and many people still fish with them. When anglers here fish for catfish they almost exclusively use dead bait, live bait or a prepared bait. I couldn't give you a percentage but I bet there are plenty of Muskie fisherman who use live bait, Spike might better answer that question. I guess most consider it more of a challenge to catch a fish with a artificial bait. Yes, we are privileged to have so many resources at our disposal.

[Vodkaman]

What I remember is fishing matches along a featureless canal, with a hundred other anglers. All using size 20 spade end hooks or smaller and match stick sized floats. The winning weight, quite often just a few ounces. I think the available hook sizes go as small as 32, just large enough to hide in a bread crumb.

At large, professional competitions, it is not unheard of for an angler to hook into a 2lb tench and to snap the line off. Because he could catch more weight in tiddlers in the time it would take to land the heavy, strong fighting tench.

My friend, a very keen angler, used a roach pole, with a short length of elastic at the end. You would dismantle the pole to bring the fish in. I myself built a 14.5 ft rod for my fishing. It looked like a walking stick next to his pole.

Ah! those were the days.

[Spike-A-Pike]

Yes Phil - when the bite is slow, it's not uncommon to put a 8"-10" live sucker hooked with a quick strike rig (a single hook through the lips and a treble with one straightened hook in the upper back) in addition to a second pole with a spinner, in-line spinner, or some form of hard bait. Just sitting and waiting for something to bite would put me to sleep. Are you sure UK pike, even the younger/smaller ones don't get aggressive and go after spinners, spoons, or crank baits???

Just a few quick facts:

The current Muskie record is held by Wisconsin angler Louis Spray, with a 69-pound, 11-ounce fish he caught in 1949. Second spot is held by a 67-pound, 8-ounce muskie caught by Wisconsin angler, Cal Johnson, also in 1949. Currently the number three muskie is held by Canadian Ken O'Brien fish, a whopping 65 pounds, October 16, 1988.

The North American northern pike record was set in 1940 @ 46 pounds, 2 ounces, caught in Sacandaga Reservoir, New York. Can you believe that there is only a few ounces difference between the UK and US pike records??? Cool.

Phil, Pete, and Dave; if/when you guys come back to the states, either for the Meet or just to visit, if we can find some open water we'll get in either some musky or pike fishing. But I want to take you to Wisconsin where we can do both on the same lakes, rivers, or flowages. Good day and good night ya' all.

[hazmail]

"flowages"??? Bruce , you had better put this one in Gene's 'Lure Making Terminology ' post. What's a "flowage"? pete

[Spike-A-Pike]

Simple Pete,
A body of water, such as a lake or reservoir, formed by usually deliberate flooding. From the late 1800s forward, waterways in Wisconsin have been blocked either by nature, in the form of beavers and wind storms, or man, using the water to power saw and grain mills. The water is normally slowed enough to force it out of it's banks, but normally there is some degree of water still flowing. Present day, water is used to generate hydro-electrical power or as part of the paper milling process.

That was a good question, I grew up around them and forget that most folks didn't grow up with 10,000 lakes in their state... I think Wisconsin and Minnesota are the only states in the U.S.; I'm not sure if Michigan is a member of that club or not? Do one of you Michigander's know what the lake count for Michigan is???

[diemai]

@ PhilB

Don't complain too much(though you surely have good cause for it) , I think , in Germany it's still worse than your described situation in the UK .

We are very familiar with those difficulties about boatfishing as well , that you mentioned .
Most likely no gas-engine powered boats allowed , and if they are(most likely on very big waters or public waterways) , you'd have to register your boat and/or pay for a license annually .
You hardly find places to slip your boat from a trailer , even a lot of places are not easy accessible by car , so when fishing from bank , you often have to carry all your gear for a more or less distance to the chosen fishing spot .
In many waters boat fishing is forbidden entirely , where it is allowed , you must most likely row .

Fishing restrictions are issued locally by the single German states(Bundesländer) , and differ in details , but that may cause you to have to appear at court !

There are different legal sizes and closing times , so people like me , fishing waters in three different states , have to bear a lot in mind to avoid possible trouble with fishery inspectors and/or police .

Particulary in Bavaria and other places down south sonars are not allowed whilst fishing , also fishing all through the night is forbidden down there .

Here up north its rather liberal in that way , no problems about that !

Before fishing over here at all one must do schooling and pass an exam , otherwise no federal fishing license is granted ! This is possible from the age of 12 or 14(not quite sure) and is done in several evening or weekend courses .
These courses would cost about 100 to 150 € , the license issue fee is different from state to state , but most likely you must also pay an annual "fishery fee" to local authorities , that is supposed to be used for fishing-related expenses(guess , in America such is covered by the excise tax on some tackle or components).
When you finally have this federal license , you're still not ready to go , you need a permission license for the water , that you intend to fish .

Quality stocked waters are most likely in the hands of fishing clubs , so you need a membership there , which would cost from 20 € to several 100's € , depending on each single club and their waters .
Also these always charge an entry fee of about same sum like the previously mentioned annual fee !
But in those clubs you most likely have to face still more restrictions to your disadvantage !

But in some places and regions of the country anglers are better off than elsewhere , since there are many waters to fish in with only one license , that also is reasonably cheap .

Here in Hamburg we are extremly lucky in that way , since many waters here are in town council property , and it is an old legal claim , still preserved from the middle ages , that every citizen is allowed to catch fish for own consumption , so you don't need no extra permission license to fish in those , but the federal fishing license still is essential .

And if you come to visit Germany from abroad , even if you should be an EU citizen , its almost impossible for you , top spend your holiday fishing legally !

Why that ?

Simply because you won't be able to do previously mentioned schooling within your short stay , if you should even speak the language sufficientl enough to follow the lessons !

But since a few years the two northern states of "Schleswig-Holstein"(my home state)and "Mecklenburg-Vorpommern" , both located along the German Baltic ,-and partly North Sea coast , started to issue a "Temporary Tourists License" , valuable for a few weeks .

This license substitutes the "Federal Fishing License" , but is only valuable in the issuing state .
Off course an extra permission for the fishing waters must be obtained as well , most likely at higher prices than usual , since the tourists are obviously no member in a local club !

Native anglers are already complaining , because they don't see point in it , that they must do schooling , and the tourists not , since this schooling was brought in many years ago , as the green party got more powerful , with the reason , that living creatures should not be handled by unexperienced hands !

Obviously generated by same political stupidity we have a restriction over here , that every legal sized fish caught must be killed and taken home for kitchen(or the cat ?) , whereas accidentally hooked illegal sized ones must be released , but , if they should be injured too much to survive , we are ordered to chop them to pieces and throw them back into the lake !

This "take home policy" was given reason not to misuse living creatures as a mean to do a fun sport !

This is the reason , why you can't catch as many fish over here as in our European neighbor countries , that don't have these most foolish restrictions , even partly made "CPR" a law for some species!

I remember some years ago , I read in a magazine , that in the UK an angler was convicted or banned from the waters , because he killed a big carp , that he caught , same time in Germany another fella was convicted , because he had released a big carp !

Many of us don't just bother about this restriction anymore and release the bigger share of our fish to grow and keep up the stock , only have to care about , who's watching !

I was upset to read recently , that the Swiss parliament has recently given way for this foolish and ignorant "Kill Order" as well !
I hope many of the fellow fishermen over there would ignore it as much as possible , since they would be surely aware about catching less fish in future .

Ok , PhilB , don't complain too much , it could also be worse than that !

Greetz , Dieter

[Spike-A-Pike]

Well guys, I can't complain. My hunting and fishing license is totally FREE as an Illinois disabled veteran, trailer license is $48.00 a year, boat registration is initially $52.00 then renewals 3 yrs later are $45.00. In Wisconsin, as a non-resident, the annual cost is $50 for an individual or $65 for the family (includes children 16 & 17 years of age). I figured it out once, I think I pay about $50 or $60 a fish - anyone else paying less???

I tend to see it as paying $50 bucks a year for fishing licenses in the two states and everything else is an investment in my mental health care fund... Enjoy.

[King Bait Co.]

diemai your Green Party sounds a lot like PETA here in the U.S. The lady who is head of PETA is German I do belive. If I rember right I had seen a show were they connected the two groups together. PETA wants to ban hunting and fishing all together. It will never happen in my life time. Their is a show called Penn and Teller BS on a cable channel yes BS stands for bull. If you are able to see the show it will open your eyes to what these groups are about. They did a whole show on PETA it even shocked them. They have been proven supporters to enviormenta terrorist that burn buildings down and bomb buildings in the U.S. in the name of animal rights. In the short they are P.O.S. that don't even follow their own rules. Its a do what I tell you to do but don't look into what I do group. Sorry to get of the subject but these groups make me sick.