[mark poulson]

Grrr... Just what we need, another guy who actually knows what he's talking about!
Welcome into the pool Shortlite.
Maybe you can explain how obnoxious people, like exwives, keep coming back up no matter how much you weight them under. There must be a formula for that.

[Shortlite]

Hahaha, thx for the welcome. Now, not advocatingviolence or anything illegal, but the best thing to do is to beat all the air out of 'em (reduces buoyancy) and add lots of external concrete ballast (preferably encased). No formula, just overkill!

Didn't mean to ruffle feathers going into buoyancy and stuff. Maybe them 1/8 oz balsa lures weighted with 1/2 oz of lead really do float/suspend in vodka? Seriously, doing an accurate calculation is tricky. Getting very close is tricky. So just stick the damn thing in water, add the external ballast, and try and get it to suspend. When it comes to actually drilling out and putting the lead in, take away a little of the lead. Also, test with all the hardware fitted to the lure.

I through wire my carved wooden plugs, and drill out the hole to accept the lead, then seal and test. After that, I reckon the epoxy to seal in the lead, paint and topcoat will add more weight too, so I go for enough lead to make the lure float slowly. That's for a suspender. If I still want it to float, then I reduce the lead I put in some more.

[mark poulson]

Works for me. Both topics.

[Vodkaman]

Shortlite. Welcome to TU. No feathers ruffled here. I agree with all that you say, it's all about the volume. I just didn't manage to get it down on paper very well.

I have written another explanation, but the pictures and/or the PDF's are too big and I don't have the tools to fix this problem, as I am in work at the moment. I will re-post this evening.

[LaPala]

Originally Posted by Shortlite

just stick the damn thing in water

Welcome Shortlite, that's word of wisdom sorely needed in this discussion Sometimes the best course of action is to just do it!! We are lure makers and not engineers so we do not need to over analyze things. After all, the end result from all means is to get the damn lure to suspend.

[carpholeo]

Whats that saying.... Be careful what you ask for, you just might get it.
My brain hurts,maybe I should just stick to floating baits.

[FERG DADDY]

Vodkaman,

Any chance you would want to "share" the spreadsheet your are talking about? Or maybe give us a taste of a similar spreadsheet that we could plug in the variables and it could tell what the weight of the ballast should be? I would be more than happy with a lure that would rise or fall just slightly, no need for it to "hover", most fish do move some, even at rest something is moving.

FERG

[Vodkaman]

Ferg, no problem, PM me your e-mail.

This vid is based on my earlier post. It's just a demo, not a teach-in. It may answer a few critics.



There again, it may not.

[Shortlite]

Hahaha. I was just pointing out that the calculation was flawed. Background in Engineering and Science; instinct.

Just stick the damn thing in the water!!! Add a little lead. Always going to be trial and error, because (especially with wood) no two pieces will ever be exactly the same. Too many variables. Bottom line in what I was saying is that no lure has the same density as water, because it is a different material. Only water has the density of water. What you get in suspension is an equilibrium of forces. Buoyancy negates weight (which is a force, not a mass: nothing weighs 3 g, it has 3 g of mass).

A composite of wood and lead (lead inside a wood body) has a different density than plain wood or plain lead. The calculations for external ballasting is easier than internal ballasting, for this reason. Complex dimensional shape, placement of the lead, etc. Let's just say that simplifiying the density thing, a 8 cm long cylinder of 1 cm diameter has a volume of 6.284 cubic cm. Internal lead weighting doesn't change its volume, just its mass. So 3g of lure + say 5 g of lead has a total mass of 8 g. Density is mass/volume = 8/6.284 = 1.27 g. Greater than density of water. Full stop. If this lure suspends, it is because it's buoyancy is equal to its weight. 8 g of mass weighs 80 Newtons (force). Mass is scalar, Force is vector quantity. Mass just "is", force "acts" on an object or in a direction.

Just stick the damn thing in the water!!!!! Hahahahahahaha. Spending too much time trying to work that crap out = waste of time = less productivity = less lures made = loss of fishing time = less fish caught!

Git 'er done, git 'er wet, catch some fish!!!

[Shortlite]

Nice video. Spot on. Care to share the spreadsheet program? I assume it takes into account lure material, density, etc? Sounds and looks like avery useful tool to get you in the ball park, where you then just adjust a little to get what you want. However, I still stand by my statement that you need to put the fittings, spit rings and hooks on before doing the ballast testing: those extra grams will definitely change the attitude of the lure.