[Downriver Tackle]

Originally Posted by kelly

OOOOOH? ouch! I think you have plenty of secrets. Like your fishing hole or where you skinny dip.

No secret where I skinny dip. My backyard, in the jacuzzi.

[kelly]

OK! OK! Thank you for your help. Still have your epoxy and your fishing hole.

[benton B]

I hate to bring this up again but Devcon yellows in about 1 day. The higher the heat the faster it will yellow. No clear coat is the best, you just have to find what works for you. I do enjoy reading about all the different clear coats that everybody uses. It's a lot of very good info.

[mark poulson]

When I first started using Etex, I called their help number from their website, and spoke with a woman who was very helpful.
I subsequent emails she said the best thing to thin Etex with was denatured alcohol.
I don't thin it myself, but that's what she said.
I've learned that, in mixing D2T, it's important to mix it thoroughly without any thinning first, let it sit for a minute to make sure all the separate chemicals have had a chance to really interact, and then coat with it. Any alcohol contamination, like on a mixing stick that's been soaking in alcohol, seems to mess up the mix. Etex is a little more forgiving.
I haven't found the need to slow down the D2T. I just mix enough to do one or two lures at a time. Mixing more isn't that big a deal, and it mixes up and goes on so fast it doesn't take that much extra time.
And I only use D2T for plastic cranks, or to coat the insides of my swimbait joints, or for gluing in hardware and lips, so I don't ever need a big batch. For the big faces on my wooden swimbaits and gliders, I use Etex.

[rofish]

It was said here that acetone is way too fast to thin epoxy. I agree. I do not like acetone, because it evaporates too fast, causing problems like clouding. Instead, I use a thinner desighed for "nitrocellulosic products". It says on the label that it contains toluene, acetone and buthyl acetate. I use it both for thinning epoxy and to dissolve propionate. The propionate solution would produce sometimes the clouding effect, but this is really an exception, and it happens when the air has a lot of moisture in it.
Once I made a thick propionate solution using acetone as a solvent. I dipped the lure in it, and when it cured I saw it lost some colour(it was cloudy), but the clearcoat was a perfect matte finish. I dipped a lure having several coats of normal, thin propionate solution as sealer into this thick solution of propionate and it happened again. It lost colour but the matte finish was perfect.There was a question in the past about matte finish (don't remember who's question it was), that's why I mentioned it. Then I dipped both lures in the normal thin solution of propionate+thinner and the colour and the gloss were back again.
I do not like to use the epoxy as it is, I like to thin it. I usually make crankbaits using the printing foil technique, and I noticed that unthinned epoxy would not let the foil come through. But if I used thinned epoxy, the foil shines through the image of the fish. It is clearly the thinner which makes the difference.
It was also said by TU members that some types of epoxies have already some thinner in them (off the shelf, of course). I think that this would mean that both components have some thinner.
At least some types of epoxies can be used together with thinners. Just google "epoxy thinner" and see the results. Maybe someone could explain me if such thinners are used for 2 component epoxies or just for one component.
The picture below is meant to make the difference between a lure topcoated with unthinned epoxy (the one on the top) and a lure where thinned epoxy was used as a clearcoat (the smaller one). The foil was exactly the same for both lures.
I do not have 2 pcs. of the same lure to show you the difference, but I think the picture speaks for itself, even though when you look at the real thing the difference is higher than in the picture.
I admit that if you paint your lures you do not have to use your head with such problems.

[Downriver Tackle]

To the best of my knowledge, you can thin any 2-part epoxy. The amount of solvent used to thin epoxies can vary from brand or type. Glue-types are generally pretty high in viscosity and will probably need reducing. 100% solids epoxies made for coatings applications are thinner by nature and would flow right over that foil beautifully. Even beyond viscosity, cure time is a major factor for flowing over surfaces. It needs to stay fluid long enough to wet out all the surfaces properly. That's why I preach slow-cure.

As for your acetone problem, it's not just that it dries too fast. Epoxies have limited solubility in acetone. You need a blend of a ketone(s) and toluene. 75:25

[mark poulson]

Downriver,
Why does D2T stay tacky if you mix in a thinner before the two part mix is thoroughly mixed?
I'm guessing the thinner bonds to one part better than the other, and screws up the mix if they're not already mixed before it's added.
But I'm certainly no chemist, or epoxy solvent expert, although I have tested my share of alcohol "solvents".

[Downriver Tackle]

Originally Posted by mark poulson

Downriver,
Why does D2T stay tacky if you mix in a thinner before the two part mix is thoroughly mixed?
I'm guessing the thinner bonds to one part better than the other, and screws up the mix if they're not already mixed before it's added.
But I'm certainly no chemist, or epoxy solvent expert, although I have tested my share of alcohol "solvents".

Some epoxies react with hydrogen and/or oxygen as part of their curing process. Alcohol contains hydrogen and oxygen molecules that will react with the epoxy before it can react with the hardener. Alcohol is low viscosity, so those molecules are flowing around linking with the resin faster than the hardener can. I'm about positive that even if you used it after the mix, you're still not getting a full cure. If you thin it with DNA, I'd bump the hardener up 10% or so and see what happens. Should get a much better cure and ALOT less yellowing. Remember that an improperly cured film will yellow very fast, no matter what quality epoxy you use.

[KcDano]

Down River that mix ratio of keytone and toluene isn't that close to lacquer retarder?

[Downriver Tackle]

Originally Posted by KcDano

Down River that mix ratio of keytone and toluene isn't that close to lacquer retarder?

Pretty close. Old-school lacquer thinner. Component systems vinyl thinner is the closest out there. Available at Cabelas, Gander, etc. Gotta watch "lacquer thinners" out there. Most contain alcohols aren't good for 2-component paints.

I hope I didn't open up a can of worms. LOL One thing to remember if you're brushing your epoxy and thinning with strong solvents. Use the thinner sparingly. Some underlying paint systems may wrinkle if you use too much.