[bassrecord]

I need a tool to test fish hooks. I want to put a single J hook in a hook tester tool, apply pressure until it malfunctions and record where it broke. I need to be able to make several tools to share with my friends so that identical fish hooks will fail at the same pressure on different Hook Tester Tools. Does anybody know of such a device?

For my purposes, fish hooks in any tester would fail three ways:
1. the eye breaks or stretches and lets the line slip away,
2. the hook shaft breaks or bends such that the point pulls out, and
3. the gap or bend straightens or breaks and the point separates.

I have given hw to make this tool some thought. A 18" torque wrench with 150 foot-pound capacity should be sufficient. The 3/4" drive torque wrench fits into a 13/16" socket which would turn a 1" axel with notches and a pawl to keep it from slipping when more torque is being applied. A 3/4" link chain would be fastened to the axel. At the end of the chain would be attached a strong "S" link with one normal end of the "S" link fits into the chain ands the other end is tapered and sharpened to a point. The pointed end fits into the eye of any hook and the hook point is hooked behind strong metal bar stock. After slack in the chain is taken up, the torque wrench is cranked until the hook fails.

Any comments would be appreciated. Can anybody make such a device?
John

[David Reid]

For a bit more info see Quality control on the Mustad site: http://www.mustad.no/abouthooks/q_control.php

[bassrecord]

That is a good non-specific description. Thanks for sharing. Mustad does not share their Mustad Bending Test kilograms data with the public. It would be interesting to see if all their High Carbon 110 steel fish hooks bent at the same kilogram weights <g>.

Mustad says, "Hooks mainly consist of high carbon steel." Theirs do. But their competitiors sell a lot of stainless steel hooks. Mustad is still slow getting into this market. They are trying to sell high priced new stuff against their old style fsih hooks.

The Mustad 39965D hook they are testing looks like a circle hook which I never use. Their notion of testing "bend" is just one of three ways a fish hook can fail.

The other problem I have with Mustad is that their MBTest is a device to ensure that their automatic machine-made fish hooks fail consistently (within upper and lower control limits) when made at Mustad's lowest cost. Their cost reduction scemes are not my concern - I just want the strongest hook possible! No doubt all the other major hook manufacturers who use automatic machines use a similar control technique.

The only other way to make fish hooks is partially hand made. Companies that use this technique also must use quality control of a different type to make sure human errors don't let faulty hooks onto the market.

The marketing hype and BS about fish hooks makes me want to puke. Garbage such as micro barbs, chemically sharpened, colors, coatings, etc. are drivel - I just want strong, light and cheap! A fish hook testing tool will help us get what we want, I think.

John

[David Reid]

John, Didnt really look through your initial post that much and think about it or reflect on it. I just posted that in case it was of use to you. Mustad normally make pretty good hooks but it depends on where they come from. They are about one of the oldest hook manufacturers going and have made hooks in Norway since around 1870 offhand.Today they make hooks in a number of places and I imagine the quality varies. I know they manufacture in Singapore and also in the Phillipines. I imagine the lowest quality come out of the Phillipines and that is possibly the major source for a lot of American ones ???? The quality of their finished hooks not only depends on the initial material but on what quality of heat treatment plant they actually have in place and how they actually consistently heat treat the hooks they make.
To make something as you have suggested shouldnt be very difficult. It just requires a little initial thought. If you wanted to compare various hooks and see how good they are I would compare them against equivalent Owner hooks. By general common consensus they seem to be one of the best hooks on the market and just about all comments and reports I have ever seen on them have been totally positive with very very few negative comments or reports of failures. With regard to SS hooks some of the Chinese ones may be alright. Somewhere amongst my stuff I have a report of a particular brand that tested up quite well and seemed to be quite a reasonable hook.

[clamboni]

How about a small spool witha hand crank, some cable, and a high capacity spring scale. Mount the spool and cable on one end, the scale on the other. Attach the cable to the hook eye and the bend to the scale. Try to find a scale that has a marker that stays put when the weight is released. That way you can be farther from the hook when it breaks and goes flying and still read the scale accurately. One though thing though would be finding some kind of fastener that'll be thin enough to fit in the hook eye and also hold up to repeated stressing like you'll be putting on it. You only really have to build one, and just test a few of each hook on the same one, more consistant that way anyway.

You said you want a hook that's strong, light, and cheap. Tough combination to find. And how much money are you planning on spending on building this tester?? Might just be worth it to buy some Eagle Claws. They're a much better hook then they used to be and pretty cheap.

No matter how much money you spend on it, ANY hook will fail if you catch enough big fish on it.

[David Reid]

Clamboni, Stainless steel will eventually breakdown and rust. It is certainly biodegradable but just takes a lot longer. It really depends on what grade it is. Grade 304 normally has anywhere from 18 to 20% of Chrome, 8 to 12 of Nickel and no Molybdenum while 316 has 16 to 18% Chrome, 10 to 14% of Nickel and 2 to 3% of Molybdenum. It is the Molybdenum which gives it extra durability and makes it most suitable for marine use. I dont know what grade they use for SS hooks its probably something like 304H which has a higher carbon content. What differentiates hooks is the tempering process and control used more than anything.
Here is a reasonable article on hooks: http://www.sportfishingmag.com/article.jsp?ID=22367
The thing is to keep most hooks sharp. Its amazing how quickly they lose their extra edge if you dont look after them.

[bassrecord]

David, This is good information. I had not realized that Mustad hooks made in different places would have different quality. My guess is that their quality would be roughly the same for the identical hook.

You said, "If you wanted to compare various hooks and see how good they are I would compare them against equivalent Owner hooks. By general common consensus they seem to be one of the best hooks on the market and just about all comments and reports I have ever seen on them have been totally positive with very very few negative comments or reports of failures."

Yes Owner has a good reputation and Eagle Claw had bad reputation, but I want to test for myself. Let's say 30 Owners for a given model/size broke at 75 ft-pounds average and the equilivalent 30 Eagle Claw model/size broke on average at 74 foot-pounds, if Owner cost 3 times as much, I would go with Eagle Claw. But I'd be interested in the weakest hook out of the 30 sample too or some breaking all over the range. If they cost the same, and behaved the same, to me it would be a push.

I'd be interested in reading your SS report. To my thinking comparing SS hooks to high carbon steel hooks is almost like comparing apples to oranges, but there may be some overlap.

John

[Vodkaman]

I think a valid point would be, do you load the bend or the point. I am thinking that the point would be a more realistic measure of the hooks tendancy to straighten, but in actual practise, the load is taken by the bend.

As for the mechanical device, I am thinking of a water container, slowly filled. Easy to graduate with a marker pen, no moving parts and very cheap.

[bassrecord]

Clamboni said, "How about a small spool witha hand crank, some cable, and a high capacity spring scale. Mount the spool and cable on one end, the scale on the other. Attach the cable to the hook eye and the bend to the scale. Try to find a scale that has a marker that stays put when the weight is released. That way you can be farther from the hook when it breaks and goes flying and still read the scale accurately."

Interesting idea. But if a size 18 hook would break at say 10-15 ft-pounds and a size 6/0 hook broke at 120 foot pounds, it would be tough to find a spring with that scalability.

"One though thing though would be finding some kind of fastener that'll be thin enough to fit in the hook eye and also hold up to repeated stressing like you'll be putting on it."

Yes! this may be the weak link in the tester.

"You only really have to build one, and just test a few of each hook on the same one, more consistant that way anyway."

Yes but if several friends could replicate the tests and get the same results, then it should be easy to clearly see the "best" hook, right?

"You said you want a hook that's strong, light, and cheap. Tough combination to find."

Sad, but so true.

"And how much money are you planning on spending on building this tester??"

I already own the torque wrench and 13/16" driver which cost about $180. I'm guessing a machine shop will make the rest for about the same $200.

"Might just be worth it to buy some Eagle Claws. They're a much better hook then they used to be and pretty cheap."

I'm testing the L-200 now and they are very light weight wire for Big 5-6 pound and up bass. On Big bass the gristle on the inside of the mouth and lip solidifies and light weight wire like bass "Stinger" hooks bounce off letting her get away too often. I never will use a stinger hook for that reason. I'd like to test some light wire weight SS hooks against the L-200 and see which is the best. I'mk sure the Tiemco 511S would defeat the L-200, but they are discontinued <groan>.

"No matter how much money you spend on it, ANY hook will fail if you catch enough big fish on it"
Now that is the problem I want to have <grin>
John

[David Reid]

John, I have seen the odd comment on SS hooks breaking but I think that is because the smelting process isnt that good, the smelting process isnt long enough (to get steel to greater purity they bring the material up to a certain temperature and hold it there. The longer it is held at that temp the more impurities are burnt out and the better the steel resulting. Obviously it costs money to hold it at an elevated temp so sometimes they short circuit the time and the quality isnt quite as good) or the drawing process isnt that good but mostly it comes back to the tempering process. This tends to vary a bit and again it comes back to time. There is certainly some very good SS hooks out there but most of the time you dont see them.

With the smelting process better understood today and good steel analysis equipment fairly readily available reasonable quality steel and SS is reasonably easy to produce. Unfortunately though the dollar tends to drive everything.

I will have a look for that report again at some stage but have had a look for it in the last couple of months and didnt find it. I do remember filing it but for once I dont seem to have been very logical in my filing because it is certainly not where I thought it would be.

I am interested in finding out a bit more about these Matzuo hooks myself. Has anyone got any really positive or negative comments about them?

I just read Vodkamans comment and believe he makes a very valid point re the loading on the point or the bend. A tester as you have described John should be fairly easy to put together but it certainly needs a little thought as to exactly where and how you hold the hook at either of these points. A torque wrench will certainly give you a fairly repeatable result as long as you set the thing right each time and then release the spring pressure and setting every time you put it away.