[redg8r]

Originally Posted by Pop

oh boy , I'm confused. Alot has been said already giving alot to be thought about. I might be wrong, but; I get the feeling that a mod or mods want to quit their day jobs and run the site full time. Nothing wrong with that, good american ingenuity.

You are correct to an extent, the mods have no current stake in this, it has been lightly discussed & they are fine continuing as volunteers at this time.

If you go with charging for the site, I would suggest you offer one month free to new people or at least a very minimal charge. This will draw in people that would otherwise move on instead of paying the suggested monthly fee for a look see. IMO.

Offering free trials are detrimental in this case, similar to software, as most would just copy as much info as possible & never pay, but if the quality of content is ever increasing, that's a good motivator (along with the networking) to stay aboard. constantly increasing the content would be my full time job.
This model would allow me time to place beginner demonstration and resources outside the forums as a lead-in to what is available inside, as a member.

Discounts, yes, I've put some heavy code in to determine the level of contribution each member has given, it doesn't just count your posts, or your seniority (although, those are small factors).
Discounts would go to every existing member, the discount depends on your involvement to date. Stats show a lot of active members, would only pay a portion of what is listed above.
That personal discount would continue until you decide to cancel.

Statistics show that only @ 2 out of every 10 members actively contribute.
This fee structure will at least force the other 8 to contribute (indirectly, as in monetarily) to further the site. The other 2 enjoy their personal discount.

[nova]

I think there may be other ways to raise funding.
Why not an online store where members can sell their product through TU where TU would receive a % of each sale.

I think a lot more members would agree to this than a signup fee.

The store would allow members ,who are thinking of selling to the public, to test the saleability of their products. For the members who just pour for themselves it would allow them to offset their costs of making baits. For the guys like myself who have a website it would allow them more acess to the web as well as customers.

www.novalures.com

[Vodkaman]

What mildly irritates me, is the feeling of being on a reality TV show. TU is our house and all these strangers are looking in. I just checked out the 'who's online' feature. Online were 18 members and 35 non-members. Of the members, only two were in the gallery and none viewing personal profiles. Of the non-members, 8 were in the gallery and 4 viewing personal data.

The personal profile section should be closed to non-members and just a random selection of gallery should be made available only. Enough has to be made available so as to attract new members, but by opening everything, who needs to join.

TU is getting big and needs a lot of work to keep it at the standard that we want. I would sooner pay than consider the alternative of having those tedious mortgage adds, or 'click here for your free visa to the USA'. You then try to close the thing, to read what's hidden, then it's gotcha.

[Basseducer]

I for one don’t find the fees that Jerry is proposing to be excessive, in fact they are quite cheap. I don’t have a site and don’t operate a tackle business. I sell wire baits and such to the guys in my bass club and a few other buddies for boat gas money.
However several contacts developed through TU have resulted in sizable orders for me and have more than paid for several years of membership. Not to mention the wealth of knowledge that is available just for the asking.
Maybe Jerry will come up with a Life Membership.

You have my support Jerry.

TJ

[BobP]

I'm a dedicated hobby builder. I'm not looking for an enhanced sales outlet, a commercial edge, free advertising for any product, or "ancilliary" benefits like a free T shirt. I'm just here for the community interaction. I understand your desire to take the site to a "higher level" to derive more benefit from the hard work and expense you put into maintaining TU. But IMHO, when you get above a nominal subscription charge (and I strongly feel that $50+ per year is well above "nominal"), you'll see a huge drop in TU membership. Will enough paying members remain to offset the loss in advertising income? I hope so but ???.

No sour grapes here, I enjoy TU and wish it every success, whatever form it takes. But I've seen several sites become moribund failures when they strayed from the free membership/advertising supported model they began with.

[redg8r]

Originally Posted by nova

I think there may be other ways to raise funding.
Why not an online store where members can sell their product through TU where TU would receive a % of each sale.
I think a lot more members would agree to this than a signup fee.

That's the Idea behind Tacklescout.com
The software customized to integrate with TU & all the necessary options to function was quoted around $1500 uninstalled & doesn't include SSL certificate or possible merchant account.

That's a lot for me to personally spend to allow our users to "test the saleability of their products" Also, with that model, no sales = no revenue for anyone, manufacturer or service provider.

I've been researching ALL available software developers, opensource & otherwise for over 4 years & the pickins are slim. I am happy with one, but again, thats the required investment with no guarantee of ROI.

Thank you for the suggestions, please keep them coming.

[nova]

It was just and idea Jerry. I'm not up on all the background costs involved in this type of venture.

If I have any more ideas I'll run them out here. Maybe one of them will spark an idea from another member.

www.novalures.com

[redg8r]

Originally Posted by BobP

I'm a dedicated hobby builder.... I'm just here for the community interaction.

Thank you Bob, Your input, given by your use of the site is of particular interest.

IMHO, when you get above a nominal subscription charge (and I strongly feel that $50+ per year is well above "nominal"), you'll see a huge drop in TU membership. Will enough paying members remain to offset the loss in advertising income? I hope so but ???.

I've done alot of math & the fee seemed reasonable to me, I mean that's my average order for necessities from any of the retail component suppliers.

No sour grapes here, I enjoy TU and wish it every success, whatever form it takes. But I've seen several sites become moribund failures when they strayed from the free membership/advertising supported model they began with.

Thats a real concern, much why I want your feedback.
Supporting a site via advertising is a common practice, but it requires 2 fundamental things:
Larger userbase = more moderation work
Advertisers = excessive amounts of ads, which I honestly dont enjoy as a user or administrator.

We have some of both, I wont divulge what the site makes currently, but it barely pays the annual software licensing fees, web hosting bill & domain registration.

Everything else is paid by me. My time is volunteered, the mods time is volunteered.

Again, I'm not defending any decisions, none has been made yet, just explaining our situation in an somewhat uncomfortably casual fashion.

[redg8r]

Originally Posted by nova

It was just and idea Jerry. I'm not up on all the background costs involved in this type of venture.

If I have any more ideas I'll run them out here. Maybe one of them will spark an idea from another member.

www.novalures.com

Hey, thank you for your input, seriously, your opinion matters, I want to keep open dialogue here, if it seems I'm defending the idea, I apologize, I'm just trying to let you know the hurdles we need to cross in respect to your ideas.

Also, on a side note, you can put your website URL into your signature via your UserCP, so you don't have to type it in each time you post. just a timesaver tip. Thanks again.

[mark poulson]

I'm not sure how to vote.
If you're saying you need to charge to keep the site going, then I vote yes.
If you're saying you just want to make the site different, and need to charge to do that, I vote no. I like it as it is. Any more complication will just make it a pain to visit.
If you're saying you are thinking of selling the site, and this will increase it's value, I will probably vote yes, to help you increase the value of the sale, pay the dues for a little while, and then eventually stop visiting.
I am not selling lures. I am strictly a hobbiest. And the only reason I've been able to make successful lures is because of what I've learned here. I started making them to replace a Pupfish lure of a friends that I broke. One thing lead to another, and now I've made a bunch that catch fish. And I've had guys I fish with offer to buy my lures, but they're just for me, and a couple of fishing buddies.
If you had had a charge to visit the first time I came here, it would have been my last visit, and I'd have looked elsewhere for help.
I can see how expanding the site would involve a lot more work, and more moderator time, so charging for that makes sense.
I just don't think the site needs expanding.
There are a lot of forum sites that don't charge. But they do sell advertising, mostly fishing related. And they're model seems to work for them. One I visit a lot, Westernbass.com, has an add banner at the top of it's forum pages, and they get some kind of payment whenever someone accesses one of those sites through the banner connection. I am not sure exactly how it works, but it does. I asked the site owner if it helped him if I went to those add sites through the banner, and he said, "Heck yes", so I now make a point of going to a couple of sites from that forum site instead of visiting them directly.
Given the enormous number of fishing-related businesses discussed here, and sites posted on the forum in responses, I'd think you could work something like that out. But I don't pretend to know if that would meet your financial needs. I'm totally clueless about the financial aspects of running a site like this.
But it's your site, and you can make of it whatever you like.
I'd just like to know, upfront, why the changes? Of course, you don't owe me, or anyone else, an explanation, but letting us know why you're doing it would help in my decision making.
From my perspective, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" applies.
So, is it broke?