[thill]

I've had problems with hard lead not pouring well at all, so I've gone to ONLY using super-soft lead. (sheet lead)

But I've found that because I fish around rocks, my jigs don't do well at all banging around. I believe sheet lead has an additive that makes it even softer than pure lead. It melts at very low temperatures and turns either gold or blue when air hits the molten metal Anyone know anything about this?

So I've started adding a bit of the junk hard lead I have around to my mix. Probably about 5% by volume. And the results have been great. The lead still melts at a low temperature, and still pours silky smooth. But now my jigs don't dent nearly as easily, and the paint stays on better.

Anyone else have experiences like this?

-TH

[nova]

The turning color is due to too much heat.
I always mix my lead with 1/2 pure lead and 1/2 wheel weights. This will almost eliminate the denting you are having.

www.novalures.com

[basskat]

Nova beat me to the punch, add a few wheel weights and your problem is solved.

[thill]

Nova and Basskat,

When I add even the small amount of hard lead, the lead won't turn blue anymore, even when it gets very hot. It gets kind of a white film over it.

But straight sheet lead, even at temperatures that barely melt it, gets a yellow film after a while. Make it just a little hotter, and it turns blue.

Is this the tendency of pure lead, or some kind of softening additive?

-TH

[nova]

What are you using to melt your lead? If it has a thermostat; turn it down.
If you pour you lead too hot you can take the temper out of the steel in the hook. This will make the steel brittle.

www.novalures.com

[sagacious]

Originally Posted by thill

When I add even the small amount of hard lead, the lead won't turn blue anymore, even when it gets very hot. It gets kind of a white film over it.

But straight sheet lead, even at temperatures that barely melt it, gets a yellow film after a while. Make it just a little hotter, and it turns blue.

Is this the tendency of pure lead, or some kind of softening additive?

-TH

Yes, that's what pure lead does when you heat it up a little too hot. There is no "additive" in soft lead, as a matter of fact, any metal that can be added to lead, will make it harder. You cannot add anything to make lead softer-- anything you add will either make it a little, or a lot, harder. "Pure" lead is soft, and alloyed lead is "hard" lead.

Lead can be very sensitive to alloy additions. A very small change in the composition of the lead alloy can change the way it acts, such as not oxidising as readily at higher temperatures-- just as you have noticed.

I pour large jigs for use in saltwater, and they take a lot of abuse from rocks. Soft lead won't cut it, so I use straight wheel weight lead. If the mold is gated and vented properly, straight wheelweight lead pours very well.

Hope this helps, good luck!

[thill]

Thank you for your response. Quite interesting!

I pour large jigs for use in saltwater, and they take a lot of abuse from rocks. Soft lead won't cut it, so I use straight wheel weight lead. If the mold is gated and vented properly, straight wheelweight lead pours very well.

That is the first time I've heard that! Everyone tells me how badly it pours, and I recently got some that wouldn't work even in in my 2-1/2 ounce #9 Shad head molds by Do it. The barbs would never form right, no matter how hot I heated the lead. But it works great for sinkers, so that's what I'm using it for.

I wonder if California has a different wheel weight formula?

I know that a small amount of tin lowers the melting temperature and makes the lead more "ductable." I thought it might made it softer, too, but I realize that is not the case, after researching it a bit.

-TH

[cadman]

Sagacious is right about pouring hard lead for rock infested waters. I use to pour only soft then I went to 50/50. Now I just bought #500 pounds of printers lead for .20/per pound. It is very hard. I have had no problems pouring it straight, into bigger size jigs 1/8 oz and up. I will tell you one thing, it also has a different sound to it then when I use to pour pure soft. Also the sprues are harder to cut, and they are also harder to file. I threw a one ounce weight against a brick wall, and there was no denting in the weight. That's how hard this stuff is. If need be I mix it with my pure soft to get all the smaller size jigs.

[sagacious]

Originally Posted by thill

Thank you for your response. Quite interesting!

That is the first time I've heard that! Everyone tells me how badly it pours, and I recently got some that wouldn't work even in in my 2-1/2 ounce #9 Shad head molds by Do it. The barbs would never form right, no matter how hot I heated the lead. ...

In the above case, the problem isn't with the lead. Wheelweight lead should pour those 2-1/2oz jigheads just fine. I've poured an almost infinite number of them-- never have any problems........... honest! That's all I use any more, straight ww lead.

Attack the problem this way: First, when pouring larger jigs, you should always warm up those larger jig hooks. Place them somewhere at your pouring setup where they will warm up a bit-- not "hot", just warm them up a bit. This is especially true if you pour during the winter season.
Second, vent the mold at the location of the barbs. Just make a slight scratch on one of the mold halves, from the tip of the barb to the edge of the mold. Don't worry, this will not damage your mold in any way. That tiny 'vent' will allow air to escape as lead fills in. Many (most?) molds are not quite perfect as they come from the manufacturer, and need a little tweaking. Doing these things should make those 2-1/2oz jigheads pour without problem.

Consider also that your sinker molds may have looser tolerances than your jig molds, and thus may effectively have more venting. If you can pour 2oz sinkers with ww lead, you should be able to pour 2-1/2oz jigs with the same lead, yes? Now, if you said you had problems pouring 1/16 or 1/8oz jigs, I'd say "OK". But you shouldn't have any problems pouring 3/8oz or larger jigs with ww lead, and using good technique. So, the problem likely isn't being caused by that lead, and you should be able to resolve your pouring issues by tweaking your molds and your technique.

I wonder if California has a different wheel weight formula?

Unlikely, and even if so, it's unlikely to be an issue anyway. Wheelweight alloy varies all over the scale, and has also changed over time. No doubt different manufacturers use different lead formulations for different wheel weight applications. Once a 5gal bucket of ww's gets melted down into ingots, and then mixed again in the pouring pot, the lead alloy gets pretty well mixed up, and differences in exact alloy composition become quite miniscule-- if noticeable at all.

I wouldn't get too set in your ways thinking, "Wheelweight lead is too hard, and too difficult to pour!" If it can be melted, I've poured it. I've run into some sticky wickets, but wheel weight lead isn't one of them-- by a long shot. However, each lead alloy behaves a bit differently, and sometimes requires a slightly different technique. Try this: Gradually increase the percentage of wheel weights in your melt-- you'll learn to work with straight ww lead, and soon you'll wonder how you ever had any problems with it.

Wheel weight lead actually has a lot of advantages-- it's commonly avaiable, often free, and it was made to be cast into small objects. Finding pure lead can be difficult, and expensive, and it won't hold up to rocks very well at all. While I know some may disagree with me, I've poured literally tons of ww lead, and know of what I speak. However, I suspect there are a lot of folks working with straight ww lead, but not spreading the info on pouring it. So remember, you heard it here first!

I know that a small amount of tin lowers the melting temperature and makes the lead more "ductable." I thought it might made it softer, too, but I realize that is not the case, after researching it a bit.
-TH

Yes you are correct, adding a small amount of tin will usually reduce the surface tension and increase fluidity, and make the lead a little easier to pour. It will also slightly reduce the melting temp, but remember, the melting temp of pure lead is considerably higher than ww lead, so that may be of limited benefit. Adding a little tin can help pouring in difficult molds sometimes, and I used to add a very small amount of tin myself on occasion, but it's not mandatory and you may eventually choose to skip the tin and save that cash for something else. It's one of those little tricks to save for a day when things just ain't a-goin right.

Hope this helps. Good luck, and be safe!

[LedHed]

TH
Ditto with Sagacious – very sound advice on wheel weights.
If you are using a bottom pour – hopefully a 4-20 or larger – try holding the sprue hole of the mold up to the spout of the pot. Tilt the mold when you start your pour. Depending on your flow – do a 1 – 2 count then slowly lower and even your mold while you still pour. Don’t leave the mold in contact with the spout and stop the flow.

Got lucky - have the SH9-3-LA and it pours fine with out venting (BTW - venting is the quickest fix). Don’t think any two molds are exactly alike so one can’t expect them all to pour the same. Could be pouring technique – what is used to pour with – lot of factors.