[Shortlite]

Thank you so much for the insight guys. While I don't think I have bitten off more than I can chew, holding cards to my chest and being a bit vague ain't helping.

Now, the cylinder bit, on it's side and at 45 degrees won't cut the keeper I am looking for. It'll cut a triangular ridge. The conical engraving bit will give the shape I want if you consider it's axis as the hook shank.

Here's what I am looking for:
Bullet head, 3/16, 1/8, 3/32 and 1/16 oz.
Hook: Mustad 32833BLN salmon/steelhead jig hook, sizes 2, 4, 6. These are stouter wire, and have a shorter eye leg than regular aberdeens.

Keeper barb like the Lunker City lunker grip cones. Also seen on the Berkley Nitro jigheads available here in Australia. 2 or 3 grip cones.

Now the bullet head molds I've seen take 60 degree jig hooks. Even in the smaller sizes the jig hooks are too heavy in wire. There aren't bullet heads made that small. The keepers are not the style I want.

With the 32833, the shorter eye leg puts the hook eye in the same position as a 60 degree hook. I am trying to get the hook eye slightly further forward, so as to be closer to the middle of the bullet head.

I've been looking at this for a very long time. While it may be good to learn to customise a mold, it's ultimately not what I'm after. I want to make some jigheads for a small group of us. Not for sale, for our own use. I anticipate over time I would want to make quite a few, so that is why I wanted to invest in a mold. Looks like getting one custom made is the logical choice.

Here's a quick sketch I knocked up with Paint. Hope it's big enough to see.

[cadman]

I saw your sketch. I see no problem with the bullet part or where the shank of the hook goes in the mold. Your problem lies in trying to get your barbs, concentric and consistant. My personal opinion is that you will not achieve this by doing it by hand. This needs to be done with a casting, or other form of mold making, even machining can not get into those squared off corners by the barb, and then flared out. But then again I could be wrong. I would like to hear from others for my own knowledge on how this can be done.

[Shortlite]

Well, it can be done, because production jigs like the Gamakatsu, Nitro, Lunker City, even some cheapies have similar cone setups. You're quite right in that the problem is to get them consistent and concentric, which is why my attention was to the barb design.

I was thinking of a casting too. Read about the high temp silicone RTV moulds: sounds like the ticket, but I'll have to knock up a couple masters first. Don't think I could set that up for higher volume pouring unless I made a few molds though. Anyone used stuff like QuickSil, or RTV for leadheads? How well does the material work: flow, heating, etc?

[sagacious]

Thank you for the drawing, Shortlite. Well, after some consideration, I agree with Cadman's assessment: you'll likely need to have a custom mold made for your design, especially if you wish to have it exactly match your drawing.

Now, that's not what I might do. I'd take the Do-it darter-head mold, which has the hook eye in the same location you want, and very carefully cut 'conical' keepers with the Dremel 116 bit. That would give me 1/16, 1/8, 1/4, and 3/8oz jigs with the balance you want; the hook eye where you want it; and the keepers you want. Done. The Mustad 32833bln should fit fine.

Again, that's what I would do, but that wouldn't exactly match your drawing perfectly. However, it would indeed be very close to what you're looking for in terms of overall balance, shape, appearance, and function. Should be close enough for gov't work, and the fish might not even notice the difference! That would save considerable time and expense, and leave more time for fishing and testing your design.

Hope this helps, good luck with your project!

[Shortlite]

Thanks Sagacious. I initally looked at the darter, the bullet, and the bullet nose molds. The darter and bullet seem a little too pointed: I am after what looks like a blunt bullet, like the egghead but with a flat back end. Reason being I don't want extreme darting action when the bait is twitched, just a little.

As for cutting with a Dremel bit, I think that would definitley work with a little cleanup afterwards, with the 125 to give me sharper edged cones.

Custom it may be. Will keep looking and thinking. Thanks for the help. If anyone gets this done I wants me some free jigs!!!LOL!!

[kelly]

Wow alot can be answered in one day. I agree, have at it. One tip to match up to two sides is stick a wire where you want to cut the holders and tap on the mold (closed) with a hammer. Then there will be a grove to follow on both sides. After you think you are finished pour your lead in and find anything not matching up and fix it. One mold I have cut from scratch is a 1/8 diameter nail on a 3/0 hook with the keepers you show in the pic. When the grub is on you can't see the hook. The reason I did that is it would fall flat instead of falling nose first. So I know they can be cut with a dremel. Another tool that might help is a engraver that you wright your name on tools. Take one of your old 1/8 bits from your dremel and grind a cutting edge on the end put it in the engraver and just push in the direction you want to go, cuts smooth on the aluminum.

[kelly]

One more tip cut on a 2x4 two see what it looks like first. Before you learn on the metal.

[Shortlite]

Cheers Kelly. Great tip there.
Do-It do use the holder style keeper. It's on the roundhead model "Gamakatsu hooks".
Maybe I could open out the cavity on a 1/16 darter, cut the keeper, and see how that would work. There was also the minnow head that I reckon could have the sides on the cavity opened a bit more, with the spherical cutting bit.

For now though, I think I'll try and cut a master and do an RTV mold of it to test out.

[reeves]

Shortlite,
For the RTV molding material, I might recommend Smooth-On. They have a fantastic product at a very reasonable price to accomplish what you are going to do. You can Google their website, I think it is Mold Making, Mold Rubber and Casting Resins From Smooth-On , but not for sure. They have some excellent videos also on how to use their product. Once you get your model the way you want it, make a mold using the RTV, you will be pleased.
Good luck.

[sagacious]

Originally Posted by Shortlite

Thanks Sagacious. I initally looked at the darter, the bullet, and the bullet nose molds. The darter and bullet seem a little too pointed: I am after what looks like a blunt bullet, like the egghead but with a flat back end. Reason being I don't want extreme darting action when the bait is twitched, just a little.
...

I hear ya. I use the same size darter heads for bonefish and tropical species. With a plastic tail on the jig, it doesn't dart, it just hops. If you tie on a light hair tail, then it starts to dart a bit. Either way catches fish for me.

With a small jig like say, 1/16oz, once you paint it, and especially if you paint and then epoxy, the small details are reduced. Those conical keepers will have the forward/inside radius rounded-out by the epoxy, and the sharp edges are dulled (at least that happened with mine, but I expect others will report the same). The exact shape of the head, the 'squareness' at the back of the jighead, etc, are very likely to prove negligible once you slide on a plastic body. Concentrating exclusively and idealistically on those smaller details may mean missing the forest for the trees.

I've done a few projects with small darter/bullet-head jigs, such as adding a ball collar for tying on hair or nylon skirts, or modifying the mold to pour eye-recesses for 3-D eyes, or increasing the hook channel to accomodate a larger hook. Sometimes, if the project becomes too complicated, it may become impractical and frustrating. If you've been thinking about this project for a long time, as you mentioned, you might do well to take what molds are already available, modify them, and press them to your needs, as opposed to expending a whole lot of elbow grease and money to, essentially, make a difference with no practical distinction. I hope you see what I'm saying. Believe me, I've been there myself on more than one occasion.

That's just a few words to the wise. Hope your project works out, and you and your mates catch a heap of fish. Best of luck, and keep us posted on your progress!