[sagacious]

Originally Posted by cadman

I'm confused, or I just don't understand. Are you telling me that beeswax is not suposed to smoke? As soon as I put it in, I mix the lead with a spoon, to stir up the bees wax. But it still smokes. What am I missing here.........Pleeeeaaaaaaasssssseeee help me.

My apologies if I didn't explain myself well enough. That happens sometimes!

Any wax will smoke while fluxing. However, if you light that smoke with a match (just strike and then toss the match in), the smoke will flame up, just like a big beeswax candle. At that point you want to stir it in with a long-handled spoon. Most people pay a premium for beeswax candles because they burn with little soot/smoke. So............ light the smoke produced when fluxing, and you'll get those additional benefits from the flames that I posted in my reply above-- plus little smoke.

Once the flux turns to smoke, the smoke cannot in any way benefit the flux process-- unless you light it. Smoke adds zero benefit to fluxing, whereas flame adds considerable benefit. The flames and reducing atmosphere will assist and accelerate the fluxing process. See my last post in the "Lead Quality" thread for more detailed info.

Make sense now? Hope this helps, good luck!

[sagacious]

Originally Posted by JSC

Man this is one of the most enlightening threads
...
Thanx for a look into what is going on with fluxing. This is as good a thread as the one about different metals a while back. Wish I could contribute .. all I can do is soak up this Info.
Thanx Again
JSC

That's the great thing about this luremaking and working with metal: there's always something new to learn!

By soaking up the info, you are contributing. Share that info with others whenever you have a student of the lead-pouring arts before you, and you'll be making a positive difference in someone else's hobby, fishing enjoyment, and self-confidence (and maybe even safety!).

[cadman]

Originally Posted by sagacious

My apologies if I didn't explain myself well enough. That happens sometimes!

Any wax will smoke while fluxing. However, if you light that smoke with a match (just strike and then toss the match in), the smoke will flame up, just like a big beeswax candle. At that point you want to stir it in with a long-handled spoon. Most people pay a premium for beeswax candles because they burn with little soot/smoke. So............ light the smoke produced when fluxing, and you'll get those additional benefits from the flames that I posted in my reply above-- plus little smoke.

Once the flux turns to smoke, the smoke cannot in any way benefit the flux process-- unless you light it. Smoke adds zero benefit to fluxing, whereas flame adds considerable benefit. The flames and reducing atmosphere will assist and accelerate the fluxing process. See my last post in the "Lead Quality" thread for more detailed info.

Make sense now? Hope this helps, good luck!

Well now I get it. Thank you very much for the explanation. Just out of curiosity, how do you know so much about lead and it's properties? I read your profile. Is it from being a firearms instructor? You really know your stuff. Good info. If you don't want to reply here, you can PM me.....Thanks again.............Ted

[hawnjigs]

OK, tried the flame flux today and am very pleased with results. Lit wood matches tended to snuff on the melt so used silver dollar size pieces of paper towel lit in the propane burner flame to drop into the pot 2 pieces in sequence usually needed per flux. Wax smoke definitely minimized and fringe benefits noted: there was far less oxide slag to skim and main thing is that the wheel weight melt poured well at a significantly lower temp than unfluxed. This is gonna save a bundle on fuel cost as propane is now $4.50 per gal. out my way. Lower temp castings also have a more even finish and less oxide dust residue than hot.

[reeves]

I really like this thread. Now I have a few questions. Hawn, I'm glad you had success following these directions. I opted to mow a couple of acres today rather than cast, so tomorrow will be my baptism.

It was suggested to flux when melting down wheel weights for ingots.
1. Is this done before or after the clips are skimmed?
2. Then when adding ingots to my melting pot, I should flux again?
3. How often should I flux the melting pot?
4. Can you flux too much?

I use an 80lb melting pot when spincasting. The lowest I will let it get is about half empty (full??). I will then either add ingots or my sprues from casting. Should I flux at this time?

I will await a response from Sagacious. BTW, I too am curious about your vast knowledge like Cadman. Please include me in your response to his question should you decide to not make it public. Thanks, keep the info coming, I'm like a sponge here.
George

[sagacious]

Originally Posted by cadman

Well now I get it. Thank you very much for the explanation. Just out of curiosity, how do you know so much about lead and it's properties? I read your profile. Is it from being a firearms instructor? You really know your stuff. Good info. If you don't want to reply here, you can PM me.....Thanks again.............Ted

Ted,
Thanks for the kind words. Always happy to share where and what I can.

My father was a geophysicist, but had done some hobby foundry work and metal pouring when he was a teenager. For fun, he made his own blackpowder cannons, and also cast the 1" projectiles. With his help, I was casting my own blackpowder cannons by the time I was a young teenager. When I was about 15, I created an alloy that decomposes water and creates hydrogen, but just recently I heard that someone had done the same and had patented the alloy for possible use in hydrogen fueled vehicles. Doh! Oh well...

I studied metallurgy, and have continued working with, and pouring, metal ever since I was a child. I have made molds for various things from machine parts to bullets to jewelry to lures, and other than the book stuff I guess I've just picked up a few tricks along the way. I've worked with virtually all the metals that can be melted and poured on the home/shop foundry level, including some precious metals, so if it can be melted I've probably melted it LOL!

Since lead is easy to come by and easy to pour, I've had a fair amount of experience with working with it in a variety of applications outside of hobbyist tacklemaking. That experience has a lot of 'crossover' applications in lead pouring/tacklemaking, and I've been trying to share some of that knowledge with TU members. A lot of what I had to learn was done through hands-on practical experience, so I've been trying to shorten the learning curve (and costs) for some of our lead-pourers when there's something I can shed some light on. It's nice to see folks learn something new, or experience success in their endeavors.

There, that's the short version lol! Glad some of this stuff is useful to you guys!

Good fishing,
Eric

[sagacious]

Originally Posted by hawnjigs

OK, tried the flame flux today and am very pleased with results. Lit wood matches tended to snuff on the melt so used silver dollar size pieces of paper towel lit in the propane burner flame to drop into the pot 2 pieces in sequence usually needed per flux. Wax smoke definitely minimized and fringe benefits noted: there was far less oxide slag to skim and main thing is that the wheel weight melt poured well at a significantly lower temp than unfluxed. This is gonna save a bundle on fuel cost as propane is now $4.50 per gal. out my way. Lower temp castings also have a more even finish and less oxide dust residue than hot.

Sounds good. Yup, the fluxing process goes better/faster/more efficiently with some flame right at the top of the melt. Better chemistry for better lead pouring! Glad everything worked out for you on the first try. I've got it down to to an art, so that I try not to waste a single Btu. And hey, that smoke has Btu's in it!

I often use wood matches or a wood splinter when melting down tire weights, as the match ends up perched on the steel clips (out of the wax flux) and thus burns for a while. Use whatever works. Or better yet, use whatever works that's also free (scrap paper).

[cadman]

Originally Posted by sagacious

Ted,
Thanks for the kind words. Always happy to share where and what I can.

My father was a geophysicist, but had done some hobby foundry work and metal pouring when he was a teenager. For fun, he made his own blackpowder cannons, and also cast the 1" projectiles. With his help, I was casting my own balckpowder cannons by the time I was a young teenager. When I was about 15, I created an alloy that decomposes water and creates hydrogen, but just recently I heard that someone had done the same and had patented the alloy for possible use in hydrogen fueled vehicles. Doh! Oh well...

I studied metallurgy, and have continued working with, and pouring, metal ever since I was a child. I have made molds for various things from machine parts to bullets to jewelry to lures, and other than the book stuff I guess I've just picked up a few tricks along the way. I've worked with virtually all the metals that can be melted and poured on the home/shop foundry level, including some precious metals, so if it can be melted I've probably melted it LOL!

Since lead is easy to come by and easy to pour, I've had a fair amount of experience with working with it in a variety of applications outside of hobbyist tacklemaking. That experience has a lot of 'crossover' applications in lead pouring/tacklemaking, and I've been trying to share some of that knowledge with TU members. A lot of what I had to learn was done through hands-on practical experience, so I've been trying to shorten the learning curve (and costs) for some of our lead-pourers when there's something I can shed some light on. It's nice to see folks learn something new, or experience success in their endeavors.

There, that's the short version lol! Glad some of this stuff is useful to you guys!

Good fishing,
Eric

Thanks, and very impressive.

[sagacious]

Originally Posted by reeves

...
It was suggested to flux when melting down wheel weights for ingots.
1. Is this done before or after the clips are skimmed?

Forgive me for not typing this out again. Everything you need to know on this question is in my response here: Lead Quality More questions? Just ask.

2. Then when adding ingots to my melting pot, I should flux again?

Depends. Fluxing again won't ever hurt anything, and it'll definitely make sure your pouring goes as smoothly as possible, and that's always good, right? If the melt has more than a tiny bit of 'scum' floating on the top, or if you can see small particles of 'gunk' floating in the lead (sometimes looks like goose-pimples under the surface) then the melt should be fluxed.

3. How often should I flux the melting pot?

Whenever you add another couple lead ingots to the melt, or if you see the symptoms noted above in my response to question #2.

4. Can you flux too much?

Good question. Answer: nope. One of the many things fluxing does is make sure your lead is in the best condition for pouring. It removes oxides and 'dirt' from the lead (very often there's LOTS of lead oxide bits and tiny pieces of, well, crud floating around within the lead. During a long pouring session, more lead oxides can build up on and in the lead. That stuff can dramatically reduce the fluidity and 'pourability' of the lead-- but you can't always see it. So, aside from the recommendations I've listed, if your lead starts to lose 'pourability', it probably needs to be fluxed again. Fluing only helps, so when in doubt: flux.

I use an 80lb melting pot when spincasting. The lowest I will let it get is about half empty (full??). I will then either add ingots or my sprues from casting. Should I flux at this time?
...
George

Absolutely. Definitely, flux again once those ingots are melted and the melt has been stirred. By that time, you've probably got a bunch of lead oxide particles and crumbs floating around in the melt (but like I said, you might not be able to see them). That stuff is called "entrained oxides" and what that means is just "oxides and dirt that are thoroughly mixed into the lead melt". You can bet credits to navy beans that those entrained oxides will give you some incomplete pours, or increase the likelyhood of incomplete pours.

Questions? Just ask. Hope this helps, good luck!

[kelly]

You have changed my out look on fluxing. Thank you. Not to change the subject but how dos smoking the mold help. I am having trouble seeing a difference in my pour and do not any change. I would think all the prep would be during the flux proses. One last thing A past post cadman having good pouring when cold out (close to sea level? no moiture in air). I am lucky to have alot of pouring like that and live in utah. Can altitude or lack of moisture in the air change the properties, change like boiling water at high altitude it needs to be hoter to boil.