RPM
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Posts posted by RPM
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Azsouth great action, Thanks for sharing. Very well done
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SlowFish that is the lure I mentioned in an earlier post, thanks for sharing that. There was a video on youtube several years ago that showcased and explainted the theroy and reasoning, along with action and results. Very cool.
azsouth, great work explaining how you arrived at your conclusion. Several years ago when I had the test tank I had planned on trying something like this, never got around to it, to busy I guess, but great work anyway and thanks for sharing.
Dave, I think we talked about this sometime ago, I was on a Japaneese Crankbiat kick and then swithced to your Hunting theroy because it called to me. Like I said in previous post's I have had success using Vodkaman's theroy and method, which in short is making the Diving bill longer and trimming it to get the desired action. There is alot more to it but that is the skinny of it. Please correct me if I'm wrong, I've even got myself in trouble or accused of absurdity when I mentioned this, the thought of tuning your crankbaits can be a touchy subject with some builders.
So in general one thing I've learned from several guys here on TU, theres a lot of information that can be applied if we are only willing to think outside the box, or try something that does not makes sense at the time. When I take a dozen or more crankbasits to the lake my fishing partner and others look at me like I'm crazy and ask why do you spend so much time tuning crankbaits? HeHe! I build my crankbaits in weights, diving bill lengths, design and other ideas for a purpose, which is build a crankbiat for each application I think I need, and to try to perfect the action to the best of my ability, which does include tuning. Which brings us to whole other subject we can discuss on another thread.
It's ideas, thoughts and applied science that makes this stuff happen so once agian I tip my Hat to you guys here on TU.
Rich
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UKandy
I have disected many baits, and alot of balsa line thru baits are not sealed properly, or should I say sealed for structural strength in mind, normaly they epoxy the line thru channel but do nothing to the balsa to make it stronger, so it's rather easy to tear the line through out of the bait either upwards or forwards, once the line through starts to tear slightly it will let water into the bait which will eventually cause catastophic damage. I twist my own line tie with stainless steel wire and epoxy it into hardwood dowells that are then epoxied into the balsa body which is sealed to my standards and have yet had a line tie fail or lost a fish because of a bad line tie, My line, hooks or split rings will fail before my bait fails. Hope that helps, but with Bass sized Balsa baits I see absolutly no need to build line through.
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OK, Guys and Gals, lets get to the nuts & bolts?
Why do we ask or look for through wire? Answer is because we thought it was stronger, supperior, etc. WRONG! I have built Custom Handcrafted Balsa baits since 2011, built them both ways, lets break it down.
I'm in a bad mood and will vent trying to be subjective and civil. Through wire is a joke, perception and a farse! A through wire is only as good as the build, simply as that, it can be weak, defective and cause issues if not built correctly, same as other methods. There is no sure fire method of building crankbaits, except for trial and error. You can build a bad through wire same as you can build a bad screw eye or Twisted line tie, come on be honest with yourself. Both methods work effectively and it depends on the build. Simple as that. I BUILT 12 Old school D baits for a friend, based on his perception of how the OG Baits were made, mine were better but thats another story. He wanted through wire and balsa, If you build the baits based on the old technique they are no good ( my opinion ) because they wont last, the line through pulls out and the baits fail over time. I built them to my standards and built them to last, he liked them but ask why I went to so much trouble, ? Duh! moment, why do I spend so much time making a quality bait when the user only wants a replica? my mistake, NOT!
Heres the real deal! we can replicate baits from the past and they will be just that or we can use the technology and components of today to replicate and build a superior bait that should last a life time, which would you prefer? I've built both, and given the opportunity I will replicate but build to my standards a quality bait that should last and give the user a lifetime memory of fish caught on a bait that he suggested. Now heres the problem, a D Bait that Cost $20 back int he day, cannot be bought or built for the same price Today!
I took a dozen baits to a friend that fishes for a living last fall, I explained the same cenareo to him and he agreed to try them, guess what I just checked in with him Friday and he's still usingthe baits and loves them. I charged him $25 per bait, but should have charged him $30. each, if you build a quilty bait, be proud of it, and if you sell it, sell it for waht it's worth. In my opinion a quality handcraftd bait today should bring between $30.00 and $50.00+ dollars. if it's not a qulaity bait or a prototype maybe less, but do not sell yourself short. There is a demand for quality, handcrafted lures.
I'm winding down my career and trying to build less, but starting today, $30.00 or more and the list continues to grow so if you build a great bait they will come!
Thanks Rich
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I've been building Custom handcrafted crankbaits for certain conditions since 2011, I'm in Southern Indiana and fish alot of the Tenn River chain lakes, & River Systems. From my studies the Carolina crankbait guys are target oriented. Not so much on speed or action all though speed & action is very prevelant when it comes to crankbaits there. They also want crankbaits to HIT a target, ie: Stump, rock pile boulder, etc. Hunting Crankbaits will not perform well in these conditions. I have a certain crankbait that hunts like crazy but is no good at target fishing, because it can swim with such deflection it's impossible to hit a taget even with the best of cast's. but in open water it's deadly.
Thanks Rich
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45 minutes ago, Travis said:
Are many of todays hunting cranks really hunters based on the lures that everyone was searching for from custom lure builders in the Carolinas and some areas of TN, 30 plus years ago .
Travis, my experience is the Hunting Cranks are NOT based on lures from the Carolina's, the lures from the Carolinas were lures created more for situational conditions, ie, depth, structure, and speed and action. More of what we are looking for targeting certain depths these days. If we could put a geographical area on Hunting cranks I would personally say it may be more from the East Tennessee area where shallow crankbaits were more prevalent or the focus.
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On 4/19/2021 at 7:08 AM, azsouth said:
I have figured out how to get crank baits to hunt and have sent it to companies, but with no luck. So kind of at a cross roads here.... I do not have the money for a patent.
So make it public or just sit on it?
All comments welcome.
azsouth, I also have experiemented with this phenomenom and I'll try to reply post or relay as best in short as possible. Dave Vodkaman peaked my interest so I challenged myself and here are my findings best described in short terms.
Building hunting crankbaits are a challenge, but with his knowledge and scientific approach it was acheivable and honestly more acheiveable than I thought, but Hunting crankbaits are not for everone! I have a fishing partner that cannot stand a hunting crankbait because they have a sweet spot for speed, maybe not his but he agreed they do have a place. I also researched this in depth but have yet to arrive at the conclusion I was looking for, so I feel your pain.
I've determined what is best for me or my application may not be best for the next angler, my partner cannot stand a wild action crankbait, he wants a crankbait that runs true and will cast and run next or hit his target more often than not. He thinks the crankbait must be placed or cranked into areas that he can feel or see.
Hunting crankbaits are often missunderstood , but have proven very effective on bass that are looking for a wild or dying action of a bait fish with reckless abandonment thrown to the wind and simply replicate a dying baitfish living out it's last minutes, but he thinks he catches more fish cranking a bait in the lair of a healthy bass waiting for it's prey. So I have to honor that. In my studies of this phenomenom the Japaneesee have also experimented with this hunting effect and there have ben a few that developed a disc or blade if you will, that attaches to the lure that will cause the crankbait to hunt.
There was a video posted on youtube that showed this disc or blade in action on crankbaits, not sure it's still online but I've watched it many times, my take was more on the lines of Dave's ( vodkaman) theroy, I wanted to build a crankbait that would hunt without the help of any additional attachment to keep the crankbait more natural in appearance. I sure hope you do well with your idea and wish you the best, the one thing I can conclude is I've shifted more toward the tradional crankbait simply because of our style of fishing, which is speed based, the more cast you make and the more the bass are presented a lure, the greater chance you have for catching those fish method, not saying this is for everyone, but we have also leaned toward the most accurate cast's or presentaions in front of the fish are what has produced the best for us.
Sorry if this not enuceated correctly, just a fishermans and lure builders point of view.
Rich
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I know it's probably been mentioned or discussed here before but wanted to share a recent passion of mine that puts Lure building or handcrafted lures in perspective. I'm not sure how many guys on here are familiar with the Fred Young Big O story? but If your not familiar and want a good read of crankbait history, do a google search on Fred Young Big O lures and read what your able to find, actually quite a few great articles and some good reads.
In my opinion as well as others the Big O Story is legandary and very historical, as it is the Holy Grail when it comes to Handcrafted Crankbaits, the Big O exposed the world to handcrafted crankbaits that had never been exposed before. I also think it set the bar, which may never be topped. I'm not a collector, just a fan who was fortunate to aquire 3 of these prized lures recently and plan to pass them down in honor of Mr. Fred Young.
I'm not posting this to argue, debate or even ask opinions, I'm simply posting this since we have some new members that seem passionate about lure crafting and felt it might be good to rekindle / awake the information out there on the Holy Grail of Handcrafted Crankbaits. You may ask why I say it's the Holy Grail? well recently there have been several of these prized lures that have sold for well over $1000.00 each and are some of the most sought fishing lures in the world. No other crankbait in history has done or brought recognition like the Big O has.
Pictures are for example only to show anyone not familiar what the Big O looks like.
Guys if your not familiar with this story I suggest you take some time and study it, it's a great read and think you will enjoy it tremendously.
Have a great weekend, Stay warm and safe.
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Big Epp I do agree and I'm not one for giving the fish a bigger brain than it has, but I do think there is something about showing them something different or something they have not seen alot of. My buddy seems to think fish ( bass ) especially do get conditioned and he thinks even more so when treble hooks are involved? guess it could have some merrit if a bass bites a crank real good and gets multiple hook points in him. Thanks for your insight, and like I said I know why I spend so much time building crankbaits, it's because I get alot of enjoyment out of catching bass on them or seeing others catch bass on them, and I like tinkering with them. I was just wandering what others thought about the trends in bass fishing, and yes there has been tons of trends that come and go. I get that, but watching Patrick Walters yesterday and recently he has shown a new trend using his 360 Live Electronics and catching suspended bass on jerk baits off shore so I guess I answered my own questions. lol if we are to consider a jerk bait - crankbaits?
Have a great weekend stay warm and safe, the temp here is in the 20's and going down into single digits tonight and tomorrow.
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Thanks guys, Like I said it just had me wandering. B.A.S.S. has a big tournament this weekend I'll be watching to see how many are fishing crankbaits, surely there will be a few ? I cant remember the last time I've seen an angler on TV fishing offshore throwing a crankbait, I know theres been some but just stating it seems to me that the younger guys are fishing other lures & tactics. Anyway thanks for the replies, we shall see. Anyone interested in watching Fox Sports One has quite a few hours of the BASS Coverage on today & tomorrow Live.
Have a great weekend.
PS, The date in my first post should be 2001, not 2010 sorry guys I guess I fat fingered that and didnt catch it.
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Question for the historians sorta. What was the last tournament that came down to a win or duel with crankbaits as the major factor? I had a buddy come by today and while talking he asked why I spend so much time working on crankbaits and it got me thinking, so I thought I'd ask and maybe a few of the original OG Members could supply the info. As far as a fisherman I'm a Jig guy, always have been, then I reach for soft plastics, then crankbaits. But! the reason I build crankbaits is they facinate me and I have been beat many times by a guy fishing a crankbait while I was not. Last year we fished a club tournament where I fished all day sat with crankbaits and bites were few and far between, then Sunday the weather changed and the wind blew and the crankbait bite got much better, my partner and I were able to squeak out a win. He was fishing shakeyheads and texas rigged baits and helped tremendously to add to our total weight, we won but not in dominating fashion, only by ounces.
I've often said to be competative today you must be versitle enough and not get locked onto one style of bait. But that was not the case a few years ago, meaning some lakes, conditions set up for certain baits over others? Today's anglers seem to throw everything at them and dont seem to be locked onto a certain style of fishing. But it was not to long ago when guys would enter a tournament, known for thier strength and they finished accordingly to how well that style of bait performed.
My neighbor which I've mentioned many times is a crankbait guy, thats all he threw, kinda lived by the sword ( plug ) if you will, but he claims he won his fair share ( and more than most ) with a crankbait. Are those days gone? have the bass became conditioned, or are we just influenced by other factors? and if so what would you say they are?
My journey is interesting, I've always fished, then got involved in tournaments and in 2010 I was beat handily by a guy who fished crankbaits, leading me to where I am today. On the final day of the tournament I was in contention to win, but the guy who won fished nothing but crankbaits and beat the field fairly handily. I vowed to become a better crankbait fisherman and it led me to focus more on crankbaits, fishing them and understanding them.
David Fritts is known as a crankbait guy, Jerry Lohr, Gerald Beck, Paul Elias, heck even Kevin Van Dam all crankbaits guys, I dont recall when a crankbait dominated like it used to? Am I missing something, or has the Bass become conditioned to crankbaits and have we over used our secret lures and conditioned bass? I'm only asking because for the first time since 2012 I'm considering joing a fishing association and testing my skill against other anglers around here and wandering have I focused to much on the wrong presentations? I guess I'm asking for an honest evaulation, and honest opinion of what you guys are seeing in your perspective areas? I know this is a loaded question but it's really not that hard when you break it down. Also Travis asked me to provide him with a event or season where a crankbait guy dominated and won a Pro series handily. Any input would be greatly appreciated in my personal fishing evaulation.
Guys sorry to get philosopical but the weather here is horrible and us anglers, lure builders are grasping at straws, trying to come up with something to argue over amongst freinds, because that seems to be what we do. Lol
Have a great weekend, stay safe and warm.
Rich
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Dave your welcome, I'm a fan wether you bennefit from it or not, you have always been there to offer sound, solid advice which I applaud you for. This conversation could escalde but I graciouly decline, and bow out, your willingness to offer an engineering viewpoint has reached my maximum capacity and all I can say is anyone interested better get on board and join the conversation because I think it's going to be a good one.
Best wishes, and I for one cannot wait to see the baits you guys come up with. Let the party begin, it's almost like th Super Bowl of lure building.
P.S Man I have to get up to speed! In other words my flux capacitator has reached it maximum acheivable level and if we go much further the do dad inputer will ovreload. LOL
Have fun guys, I know i will certainly be entertained reading all the input on this lure building venture.
Tight lines
Rich
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Dave this is very generous of you, Thank you!
I'm sorry I'm not going to be much of a participant on this one, becasue it's far beyond my expertise, but I will be watching and paying attention the best I can in hopes of picking up something I can use or incorperate for sure. Hey Guys this is Monumental anyone with CAD experience or interested should certainly pay attention to this post. My youngest son is a CAD Engineer and I'm hoping he can help me decipher some of this so I can absorb some of it. I've never seen a 3-D Printer in action but I have watched some videos on the net and they are really good at doing what they do. I did see a video not long ago where a company printed a speed boat and it turned out awesome and performed very well.
In the mean time I will continue doing what I do, kinda like an old blacksmith beating out lures while all you high tech guys are building rocketships. Anyway I want to personally thank Dave, Vodkaman for all his help, knowledge and willingness to help others as well as helping me. He has certainly helped me and coached me through some rough patches on a few designs I was struggleing with, his knowledge on these lures is priceless. And it should not go unmentioned, maybe the only guy I know that would be willing to share, teach, mentor anyone who is striving to seek the betterment of lure crafting.
Great job, Dave! Very well done Sir. I tip my hat to you and say Thank you. I appreciate it.
Your friend.
Rich
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Anglinarcher, Yes seems I do remember Ole Hank saying that as well, but I'm pretty sure KVD said something similar as well.
I've been building handmade plugs since 2010-2011? and they sure have evolved or at least mine have. I still have alot of my original crankbaits, I've always signed and dated them, it's nice to rummage through those old boxes and look at those baits.
As of late I have landed on a process that suits me and I owe alot of that to this site, I would spend hours reading old posts about design, construction and basics in general. I've mentioned this before, I had a buddy that I was mentoring, we built baits together, but he decided he wanted to fish more and left the building to me. I'll be honest I have missed some fishing but the enjoyment I get from building a really good plug sorta makes up for the lost fishing time. He still kids me about making plugs but its rewarding when he comes here and says! Hey Rich I need some plugs to do this, or to fish these conditions. Also the plugs sorta speak to me, I can tell when I'm building if one is really going to turn out above the rest or if one is superior, then the fire is rekindled and I cant wait to take it to the lake and run or test it. I also mentioned my mentor a few times, he came to me and ask for a plug that would dive 12 ft and would run well past the boat when retreived. I worked on that idea and design for months but finally got several that did just what he wanted and talk about proud! LOL
I get asked all the time about building plugs, and I'm always happy to opine, but I know it's not for everyone, especiallly if your in it for the wrong reasons. I guess about mid stream I decided I was not going after the mass produced baits and setteld on building lures for situations and quality instead. I could not be happier and still have alot of untested plugs and ideas, but it always keeps bringing me back in my shop, where building plugs is medicine for me. About the durability, I'm satisfied with my crankbiats and durability, never thought about them lasting forever but if built with durability / quality in mind I think my wood plugs still out perform any plastic bait and last as long as I expect them to. Recently I've been studying Japaneese crankbaits, and trying to build around thier ideas / priciples, it's been a game changer as I've got a few sqaure bills that will blow your mind and are kept highly guarded around here amongst my fishing buddies, club members and guys who get thier hands on them. I highly suggest anyone interested in crankbaits should look long & hard at the Japaneese crankbait, craftsmanship, quality and performance they are great and when I get one to out perform them I know I have built something special.
Sorry to ramble, if you cannot tell crankbaits are a passion of mine.
Thanks Rich
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Plastic mfg should be able to tell the durometer of thier blends to help choose the desired firmness which will help make a tougher bait, also you can buy hardner to add to your plastic to firm it up and make it tougher. But I'm not aware of an additive that will keep the bait real soft and make it more durable? Not saying there is not something out there, just stating what I have experienced when I want to make a tougher soft plastic bait.
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UKandy,
On Bass plugs kinda the same here. My Balsa baits do vary and it really does depend on the lot of Balsa, I've built suspending baits and used 4.5 - 6.5 grams, but swithced or ordered a different lot of wood and seen it change + or minus 1/2 gram, then getting real technical Ive ordered hooks from same mfg, same hook and seen similar changes. I'm not an expert on Balsa but I do know there are several densities that will effect your builds. I bought a fairly large lot several years ago and it was suppose to be the same density, it was not and it took me forever to get it figured out, I had to build and test each bait individually to get the same results.
Also switching from different sealers, paint and clear coats has proven to effect my end results as well, so it basically led me to finish / test baits one at a time to get them as close as possible. The one thing I've learned, it's not that critical on high floaters, fast risers, square bills, etc. but when your trying to get a bait to be neutral or suspend the prise is in the small details, but it makes for a much better performing bait, in my opinion.
I have a buddy that fishes alot of bigger Tournaments, he buys his Crankbaits by the dozen, takes them to the lake for test & tune day, I've spent a few days with him doing this and it's taught me alot about what he's looking for and how he seperates or segregates his crankbaits. Fast risers, Medium risers, etc. He also tries to guage the depth and diving performance ( how fast it gets down to desired depth ) on his plugs as well. He takes several dozen spends the day with them and marks on the bills ( sharpie ) of his findings. He said it's the only way he can make quick decisions and choose the right crankbait for the depth ( fish ) he's targeting.
A few years back I built him several medium diving plugs ( 8' - 12' ) we went to a local lake that has alot of grass, we found deeper grass that was about a foot below the surface, he said I'll show you a few tricks. He fished those crankbaits most of the day finding what it took to get them to touch or dive into the grass, then made changes, rods with Mono / vrs Flouro or Braid. Switched hooks, added bigger O Ring on line tie, etc. He could almost call his shot and get the plugs to just barely touch the grass or get them to dive into it. I was surprised on how critical he was and after watching him it made me understand the reasoning. He also suggested I build plugs for situations, instead of trying to mass produce them. Meaning, if we are going to take the time to build these lures and want them to outperform other plugs on the market, we must first and foremost understand what that plug will do.
I cannot remember who told me this it might have been Travis? but he said many years ago a famous ( great angler ) known for 3 intials, used to buy hundreds of custom balsa / wood crankbaits in hopes of getting a few great ones? Dont quote me on that but thats what I remember. Now I'm not suggesting plug builders today are any better than the older plug makers a few years ago I'm just saying if that was the case a few years ago, it's probably the same still today?
Anyway sorry to ramble, but I'm no where near where I was 3-5 years ago and my thoughts and ideas have certainly changed ( for the better ) in my opinion, but I took Travis advice and have built much better plugs recently and owe alot of it to him.
Thanks happy plug building and tight lines when you get a chance to fish them.
Rich
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32 minutes ago, mark poulson said:
JD_mudbug said, "The satisfaction of catching fish on a self-made lure is worth the effort."
That is soooooo true.
JD_mudbug & Mark I agree, Iv'e been building handcrafted lures for quite a while and have had some great success with them, but the one that sticks out to me was a tournament buddy of mine asked me to build him a pair of shallow water crankbaits for a certain situation, I built 2 and painted them in a japaneese style or version of sexy shad. He fished them the weekend after picking them up and caught over 30 bass ( 1 day ) with those lures. So I'd have to say seeing someone else, especially a buddy fish your creation and have success would be my best. I've built this particular lure for many years and fished it all over and in different situations, always caught fish but having a buddy new to the lure have success with them was really special.
I always encourage anglers I come in contact with to follow thier passion or dreams in tackle crafting and take pride in helping others when the opportunity arrises. Recently I've been mentoring a young man, the son of a friend I work with, he sends me pictures all the time of soft plastic baits he's made and fish he's caught with them, always bring a smile to my face seeing him enjoy the baits he's created and the fish he catches with them.
Rich
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Got this picture off the internet, I have several of these types of molds and like pouring open pour swimbait laminates. Hope this helps
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Jig Man sorry I do not have any photos, but I can reccommend youtube there are several videos showing what I'm speaking of. I mostly pour open pour swimbaits, and rarely shoot unless I'm using a double injector with a blending block. If the weather was better I would most likely be pouring this weekend, but it's cold, snowy here now, not much tackle making going on right now, best of luck I'm sure you will come up with a system that works.
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Jig Man if they are injection molds use a blending block, and keep your molds warm with a electric griddle, if they are open pour molds just keep the molds on the hot plate or griddle when pouring your plastics, this will help with the bonding of the colors. I normally pour alot of 2& 3 color laminate swimbaits this way. It takes a little while to get the feel for it but once you do it's easy. Best of luck
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Juice this has come up a few times, check out Lincoya here on TU He posted a video of routing bills using templates, very fast and effective way of cutting your bill / bibs.
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Very cool, and nicely done on finding a winter testing / tuning pond. LOL All kidding aside, your lures look good in and out of the water, Great JOB! Thanks for sharing your video. My only problem would be Id have to get a room or take up residence as I'm a testing junkie, and with access like that it could become habit forming. It's probably a good thing we dont live close together because I'm not sure how your buddy would react to both of us showing with with hundreds of lures for a test session.
Rich
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Dave, your welcome and Thank you again for your scientific approach & knowledge on this and many subjects we are truly blessed to have this forum and each other to bounce ideas, thoughts and share our experiences. I appreciate and want to wish everyone here a Merry Christmas.
Rich
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6 hours ago, Vodkaman said:
RPM - It must have been a huge buoyancy force to have that effect, as you stated.
The other clue is the 'thumping' action. This is an indication that the lure is swimming at a very steep angle. The drag from the lip is very high but the down force is small.
The optimum angle is around 45 degrees for maximum depth. This smaller angle presents less lip, so less thump but more down force. To achieve this, your tow eye needs to go further forward.
Dave
Great explanation, Thanks Dave I appreciate it.
Through Wire & Modern Times
in Hard Baits
Posted
Second on the Excellent Point, and very eloquently stated I might add. I was trying to come up with a sensative way of putting it but you beat me to it.