joliepa

Question: how would a router table help anyway? is there some kind of attachment that can help with lure shaping?? or is this mostly about dimensioning the initial blocks of wood. (in which case a table saw would do just as good, right?)

I find the idea of "jigs" that help one get repeatable shapes... Interesting and appealing. BUT Without a duplicator , Lathe or CNC how do you make a jig that keeps the shape 'repeatable'? A little bit of brainstorming and googling is fizzling out... CNC/autoshaper/duplicator Is just too darn expensive for me.

I found much of this thread relevant (as well as diemai's informative reply)... http://www.tackleunderground.com/community/index.php?/topic/26708-aussie-timber-crankbait-help/page-3?hl= wobbling action It appears that the "big bill" is required to get a pretty big body into a wide wobble. apparently, the austrialian baits often features cuved bannana shaped baits with an imposing big bill. If I got it right, by applying an omega line tie towards the end of the bill, I might be able to create something with a formidable wide wobble that doesn't dive into the rocks. alternately, smaller and shorter lures do the job. beyond what he posted, diemai's trademark bannana lure (his copy of a lazy ike) seems like an interesting idea as well (with its integrated diving plane)...

if you can get Eagle brand from Lowes, You have a special store. In more Lowes, the concrete sealers are clearly water based and not going to work. Instead, eagle brand is available at home depot. I don't think all home depots have eagle supreme. ... in many places across the country then. I think you'll have to pay extra for what you want.

Once a few seasons back me and my fishing buddy got a hold of some of these "Walleye Runners" from cabelas... he had the idea to grind down the bills a bit to temper that fearsome dive. and ... it didn't work so bad, I suppose. most of the time it would run without blowing out and it didn't Instantly got stuck from a dramatic plunge. on the other hand its tendency to steeply dive and slowly wobble, did make it a serious contendor in some deeper spots (say 8-10') once other baits failed. on the other hand, this haphazard approach compromised the baits stability, and durability. It also did increased the odds of getting stuck espacially as we tried to lever it out of deep water as we reeled towards shore. M I'll try not to ask too many dumb questions, cause I know there's a long 'bananna bait' thread going on (and other banana threads in the archive)... but I'm wondering if people have tackled this design, and I'm really curious about the bill. Is there a reason for its thick parrelel orientation. Well, yes, partially to dive dramatically. but if you made a bait in the bannana shape what would happen in you scaled back to thin lexan and what happens as your bill gets steeper in angle, smaller and the line tie goes back on the nose (where it is for nearly all the casting plugs we throw)? What would be the reasoning in deciding whether to change lip size, shape, angle and line tie?? (I don't even exactly know how my friend was doing to the bill, and all the 'examples' have been lost). i'd appreciate any hints and tips that people have with this basic design and specifically in making it more friendly to wading and casting about a (relatively) shallow river. Where the holes are all ringed with rocks and heavy currents and bigtime deep diver models wouldn't last a cast... PS. I think cabelas model is knock off of a corton cordell lure called a wally diver. Which I have recollections was primarily made to Dredge the bottom of deep lakes trolling with a wide wobbling motion.

you know, I think I will attempt a "grandma" shape this weekend... Here is one HUGE thing I have been finding out about making lures. The first time always seems to go bad. I think the first time, I am just to sloppy and unfamiliar with the process. but after a few mistakes you quickly pick up on exactly what matters and how close it has to be. besides, there are things I want to copy and try. a circle and a line isn't the guide for every lure... so to the newbies, I have changed my mind. Use your templates! but then don't be afraid to ditch one if you don't like the way its going. perhaps you are just not ready for some shapes or possible kinds of lures....

you guys REALLY don't know how much you flatter me. I'm very much a newby builder. on the other hand, I love the methodical approach to lures. and can figure out some trigonometry, from time to time. SO...If you want the test, PM! ha! --- Vodkaman never talked about video analysis of his lures. but with all the insights he had, I'm still thinking he might have tried it ( really don't see how he could get basic Measurement any other way). If any one has any good way to get ahold of him. I'd love to hear him chime in. my methodology admittedly (hows THAT for a highclass word?) could use an upgrade- a bathtub is REALLY not the optimal place to get video of a lures swim. I'm getting less than a quarter second of wobbling. Anyways, Vodkamen talk about a detailed study between frequency and lure shape (and other variables I suppose) that would be very interesting. I wish he'd put more of that online. someone chimed on that thread saying that that measurement should be on the box. this is EXACTLY my line of thought. (this is my absolute favorite post on the whole forum-- http://www.tackleunderground.com/community/index.php?/topic/9007-mathematical-modeling-and-pure-science-of-lure-design ) right now, I haven't gotten my own builds ready for video analysis, but I'm very close on the first couple. I will continue to post when I do.

No... but I wished he'd come back. I've totally pored over ALL his posts. I think I'm walking in some similar footsteps, for sure.

That looks REALLY good to me. TY. I bet per inch that stuff is MUCH cheaper than suspendstrips (dots). their big roll is $38 for 36feet

I Keep chipping away at the footage, and looking for more patterns. What I'm noticing is all the noise in the data. Something I consider a variable, like frequency, Have ALOT of run to run variation. It makes it a little hard to pin down the stats on these lures, espacially as I do lure to lure comparisons. --- There still are some easy correlations. for example, the maximum wobbling angle is correlated to frequency. (more frequency = less angle). and the wobbling angle is correlated to speed. (more speed=more angle). --- Another huge variable is Drag. Drag doesn't PER SE correlate to either angle or frequency. But more drag + a faster, bigger wobble) correlates to rhythmic path in the water. Calling this movement 'Hunting' though I think makes more of the movement than it is. The rythmic path back is just an indicator that the momentum of the lure is LESS than friction. .. I'll dub it (then), prehunting. since it is the beginnings of the highly sought after hunting movement. so that opens another bunch of correlations. Less mass, More drag and more wobbling = more prehunting. more friction, big wobbles and lots of prehunting = a bait that doesn't respond well to a twitch or jerk. on the other hand, in bigger currents you can get away with more of these movements while still keeping your retrieval speed low. --- so in short, without better tools, a real tank, a consistant way of pulling a lure, a way of measuring the resistance to flow... we have some lots of variability and 3 major measurements. Change of Angle during a cycle, Timing of the cycle (frequency), and the speed of the lure. all of which can be dramatically altered by the force pulling the lure. BUT if you're just striving to make lure to lure comparisons. You should just pull a bunch of lures in a bathtub or pool and start recording. A) have enough water to not touch the bottom (obviously much easier in a pool than a bathtub) Keep your pull as consistant as possible. Do NOT go by lure speed, try to pull hard and use the fact that a lure with less drag will go faster. C) pull strait and keep it tuned. that way you don't have trigonometric distortions in your picture. along those lines keep your lure motion perpendicular to the camera. Measure in the center. D) and last. There are many clever and useful ways to measure variability. But with these kinds of rough measurements, a simple average measurement is sufficient. Do things multiple times, so you have an average. Remember the statistical truth, a number measured repeatably becomes more accurately. --- as for the video littleriver. Step2 is to get the software and start making measurements. I get so lost trying to make accurate statements from underwater video. A few of you just get the time-tested Knack to look down and say. wow what a wide(narrow) wobble. but with it broken down frame my frame some simple math and it seems clearer to me. espacially if you've gotten a good typical stable wobble. I think not all the wobbles I am describing are stable. In time I hope to have an answer for a much better test tank. That though is a topic for another thread (and more money )

Well I can now confirm that my local walmart's brand of concrete sealants will NOT work. ClearKrete Gloss Sealer is water based and resists "moisture" but is not waterproof. It sounds like we can make no sweeping statements about the suitability of concrete sealers. Some seem to be more like the typical polyurethane used on woods. Yellowing and not particularly water proof. and some seem to work. I vow to use spar urethane until I find money and availability to something better and I really Don't want the expense of buying something that will have exorbitant shipping fees. But unfortunately, spar urethane treated stuff turns yellow at the drop of a hat and needs very,very little UV exposure before the whites go a little "off". If I can't get Eagle supreme ( I don't think I can), I'm going to talk to the sherwin williams paint store. I think THEY might have a concrete sealer that would work. H&G is their brand.

I've been chipping away at the first few of them over the weekend. In thinking through the title at little... I think I may be misleading. There IS a template. Indeed there is a pretty detailed shape and its not that far from many other lures. But instead of getting some kind shape online, then cutting around it. The idea is to start with a couple circles and a centerline and a few other measurements. with the point that this design needs to be simple to cut, a minimal amount of curves, with as many strait lines as possible. In the interest that some other newby's might want to try this shape (or approach) here is the rest of the build. First with a ruler and a compass the shape is sketched onto the sides of the lure With a coping saw cut the shape. Cut the lip slot with a miter. now carve and shape. Given the dimensions of the block (1" x 5/8" wide) the resulting lure is somewhat flat sided. at this point my thoughts about carving seem to be Right on. make things simple and its easier to keep things symmtrical. I don't know if the lure is symmtrical ENOUGH, but it is a far better job than my first attempt. Maybe I'm just doing it with more confidence cause its MY design... and I love doing things my way.

you hear alot of recommendations for epoxy topcoats BECAUSE of concerns about reactions between the paints and topcoat. my understanding is that it is particularly inert to just about all kinds of paints.as for acrylics, I have been painting with acrylic myself and I have seen no issues with compability. I've been using spart urethane and have seen no reactions between acrylic paint and rethane. Keep in mind, though, my recently painted lures will look terrible if they were to be exposed to sunlight. it'd be good to have a topcoat than can take some sun and so I intend to try another topcoat, when I get the chance. personal lifestyle here have made this a low priority of things to figure out. I'm an absolute VAMPIRE for fishing, and its almost always at night. In all other ways the spur urethane seems a great top coat. Its got a softer surface that doesn't easily scratch or chip, but very waterproof, and glossy and beautiful. me. anyways, though I'm a newby I have relevant experience. I've put devcon 2ton over folk art acrylic paints. No issues with chemical compatability. though, you might find that getting a consistant coating over you lure isn't particularly easy, and thats even with a lure turner. there's lots of tutorial content on how to apply devcon. If thats you path, good luck. In the future I intend to drop some cash for walmart's version of concrete sealer.

and one name that I'm NOW intrigued with... the "pikie". been a staple of the musky dudes for a long time. I thinking spherical lure, tapered at the butt with a cut out head and a metal bill. 6-8" long. Any body here ever make one?

I'm loving this thread! I'd like to put together a musky (pike) lure together in a little bit. as you know I've been working on my first few 4.5" walleye lures... the issue here is that while I have a long history and a lot of thoughts about what design makes for a good river walleye lure. frankly I have next to none about a musky lure. I don't even know what size of wood to start with? (a 2x4"? ) the only two generalized features I've ever been ever to understand both sound pretty tricky. no bill (a glidebait?) and perhaps jointed. If you guys want to start dropping names of common (and easier to carve desings) I'd be much appreciative. Just for kicks I am going to google "musky lures (crankbaits)"..