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JD_mudbug

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Everything posted by JD_mudbug

  1. There are plenty of posters here with way more knowledge than me. Before using TU, I primarily learned from failures, of which there were many. Having a bait break on a fish can sting for a long time. Some recent posts with good info on wire. https://www.tackleunderground.com/community/topic/38342-hardware-for-wooden-hardbaits/ https://www.tackleunderground.com/community/topic/36632-wire-size/ https://www.tackleunderground.com/community/topic/38344-cotter-pins-vs-screw-eyes-vs-twist-wires-vs-through-wire/ I use stainless safety lock wire in .041 for typical bass baits like a 2.5 square bill and .051 for most everything bigger than that. I go up to .062 on larger lures 2.5 oz and up. I no longer use anything under .041 for hardbaits. I don’t think anything thinner than that would hold up to pike or musky. 20 gauge is .036”? I think snare wire might be more pliable than safety wire. You may get a pike landed but the lure may not survive if a wire eye gets tweaked and you have to bend it back. Hard baits are not like an inline spinner that can just be re-shafted. I have had a few baits with .035 that were one pike and done. .035 is fine for small baits where there is no pike or musky. Malin and Wire & Cable Specialties are the 2 most common suppliers of safety wire. You can find it on Amazon, McMaster Carr, and Grainger. The price varies from site to site. Yes, you can buy straightened wire. Sometimes it is called wire shaft(s). Sometimes you find it under wire forms or pre-cut stainless wire. You can find it with a closed loop, open loop or no loop. LPO, Janns, Barlows, and Musky Shop carry it. You can find it on eBay and Amazon too. This wire is not annealed and is stiff and harder to bend. https://www.lurepartsonline.com/search?keywords=wire%20shaft&page=1 https://www.muskyshop.com/collections/lure-parts-components/products/components-lure-building-pre-cut-stainless-wire-12-count
  2. You can go the LPO, Janns, Barlows route. Check Michaels and Hobby Lobby. I have bought some from Rock Island on eBay. There are a bunch of sellers on eBay. https://www.ebay.com/str/rockislandcustomrigsandjigs/BEADS-SHIPPING-OFFER/_i.html?store_cat=11945972018 Countbass has hollow metal beads. https://fishingtackle.aliexpress.com/store/group/Beads-Bodies/512107_507740955.html?spm=a2g0o.detail.0.0.558f3e1ctPEld4 Beadwish for eyeball beads, letter beads, pearlized type beads, and a bunch of other type of beads. https://beadswishdiy.aliexpress.com/store/4475072?spm=a2g0o.store_pc_groupList.pcShopHead_9741685.0 You have to make at least one spinner with your name or initials in it. I found a big box of assorted colored letter beads at Walmart.
  3. I use the stainless shaft wire from LPO, Janns, Barlows, Musky Shop on some builds, particular those with a rotating blade(s) or body section like a plopper, globe, or prop bait. You want shaft wire on these baits because it does not bend easily which will keep the body section or blade spinning. You can get the shaft wire with a loop on one end from the component suppliers to save some work. I use stainless safety lock wire from Malin or WCS (Wire and Cable Specialties) on other builds where I don't need a shaft wire. This wire is annealed making it easier to bend. I have also built a few with wire from AFW (American Fishing Wire). I just search for wherever I can find best price on the diameter I want. Sometimes the best price is on Amazon or eBay. Sometimes the best price is from an industrial supplier like McMaster Carr or Grainger . I will stock up when one of the lure components places has as sale and free shipping.
  4. I have made some 2 and 3 section swimbaits that are wire-through. There is no easy way to do it. It does get easier the more you do it. What I do is cut a slot down the center of the belly of the sections. Make a line tie loop in the wire. Add a dropper wire or swivel to that main wire. You may have to drill a hole to just past the bottom of the slot for the swivel/dropper wire to fit. Check the wire in the slot for length and mark where it exits the back of the slot. Bend a horizontal loop at the end of the first head section starting at the mark. Test fit the first section harness, adjust/ re-make if necessary. Once the fit is good, I lock the wire in the front section with epoxy. Then, I fill the slot with epoxy/superglue coated flat wood stirrers. Run some sandpaper by hand over the stirrers if necessary to get them in the slot. I like to fill the slot with the same material as the body. https://www.amazon.com/Royal-Count-Coffee-Beverage-Stirrers/dp/B001FVPAOE/ref=sr_1_5?crid=R4RJ76Q3KRKG&keywords=wood%2Bdrink%2Bstirrers&qid=1644201045&sprefix=wood%2Bdrink%2Bstirrersd%2Caps%2C138&sr=8-5&th=1 Once your front section is set, you can make the wires for the next section. The next section should start with a vertical loop unfinished. Just make the loop and don’t do any wraps to close that loop. Add dropper wire or swivel if necessary. Finish the wire with a horizontal loop in the back towards the tail if adding a 3rd section. If the second section is the last, make the last loop whichever way you want it. Test fit and adjust/remake as necessary. Once you have the length right, slip that section’s wire front loop onto the back loop of the head section and complete the wraps to link the 2 wires. You can then slip the second body section’s wire into its slot. Epoxy the wire in. Fill slot with wood as above. Repeat the same procedure for following sections. If the last section has no hook and just a mounted tail fin, there will be no pulling on it. You can use a long screw eye/twist wire eye if you want to avoid cutting a slot in that type of section. You complete one section at a time. Test fit, lock the wire in, fill the slot and move onto the next section. That way if you screw up, you just lose a bit of wire. The loops in between the sections have to be in opposite directions, horizontal vs. vertical, for them to move. Once you have the wires installed and slots filled, you can do ballast testing and drilling ballast holes. Just don't drill deep enough to hit the main wire in the sections. I hope that helps. My first one was a bit of pain. After a few, I can do them fairly well. It sounds more difficult than it is.
  5. Nice looking bait. I have made a couple of globes. One has a blade made from aluminum sheet metal. The other has a blade made from Lexan. I like the look of your blade. Is it stainless steel?
  6. JD_mudbug

    Wire Size

    I bend heavy wire the same way as you do, Outlaw4. I use Knipex round nose pliers model 22 02 160 to make the loop. Salty recommended the 22 02 140 in one of his older posts. I couldn't find that size plier and got the next size up in length which is the 160mm plier. The 140mm makes a 7/64" loop and the 160mm makes a 1/8" loop. You can make a smaller loop by using the Knipex to form the loop and then squeezing it with normal pliers. https://www.tackleunderground.com/community/topic/34959-recommendations-for-wire-looping-pliers/#comment-287792
  7. I forgot to mention using cross pinning to secure hardware. You can make a piece of wire with a loop on each end or use a swivel. Then put a piece of shaft wire perpendicular and through the loop end in the bait. I have used a through-wire or a wire for a joint to cross pin a swivel for a rotating belly hook hanger. You can cross pin your diving lips for added security too. We have some tiger musky in my area. They get crazy when landed much like their northern pike half. A death roll in the net where one hook is in a net hole can be a mess. You definitely want more of a mechanical bond like Outlaw4's method or through-wire if you hook into one of them.
  8. I would trust the epoxy over the super glue and baking soda. The super glue and baking soda combo make a great body filler but I am not sure of its holding strength. 20 lbs may seem like a lot but it is really not. The torque a big fish can put on eyelet can be more than that. The fish can use the lure's weight as leverage to snap it back and forth. A fish thrashing in a net can also put on tremendous stress on a lure. It depends on the size of the fish you are targeting. Some of the waters I fish have big pike and musky. 20 lbs wouldn't cut it. EA was getting 160+ lbs on pull tests with twist wire and epoxy. As for tallness, I think of it as more a question of the weight of the lure. A 6 inch minnow would be 1 to 2 ounces. I would use .051 wire for that. A bluegill bait of the same length would depend on the weight. Once the weight gets over 2.5 oz, I would start looking at .062 wire. It could also be a combo of wire. If I was making a big 'Shellcracker' type bait with a joint, it could be .062 for the line tie and .051 for the joint loops as there are two of those to share the stress. The pin that goes into the back section and through the 2 loops would be .062 shaft wire, a cut section of a stainless nail, or heavier stiff wire like a stainless toy car/plane axle. You do not want a hinge pin to flex. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08L7RKM6Q/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 On large baits, it don't use woods like balsa. I use cedar, poplar, and PVC. So, density is not an issue. Also, the baits are big enough that if I am using twist wire eye I can get the twists an inch and a half into the bait. The twists give a ton of surface area for epoxy to bond it to the lure. If I am using less dense wood like balsa, I would keep the wire diameter appropriate to the size of bait and try to get in longer screws or just make it wire through. You want to reduce the chances of failure as much as possible. That failure could happen on the fish of a lifetime. A failure like that will sting years later. When I make a twist wire eye, I file the end to a point. Filing takes a minute and prevents the flared cut ends from widening the pilot hole. I drill a pilot hole the same size or slightly smaller than the twist eye. The twist wire screw acts like a normal screw with a reversed thread. I can screw the twist eye into the hole with counterclockwise turning. I test fit it to make sure I have the length right, unscrew it with clockwise twists, and pump epoxy into the hole with a disposable plastic syringe, baggie with corner cut off, or pushing epoxy in with a tooth pick or scrap wire. I then coat the twists with the epoxy and screw the twist eye back in. They max out my 50 lb. fish scale and then some.
  9. I mostly make baits 5+ inches in length and 1+ oz in weight. I use .051" for them. Sometimes, I will go with .062" on lures of that size if they will used for pike/musky. For larger lures, when the bait is 7"+ and 2.5+ oz, I use .062. For a typical bass-size crank, I use .041".
  10. Welcome to the site. On larger pike/musky baits, I will use a straight wire through from line tie to tail hook with dropper wires or swivels for belly hooks. Through-wire is the strongest. I sometimes use wire-through on smaller lures with less dense woods like balsa because it has less strength to hold a screw. For non wire-through baits, I like stainless safety wire twist eyes the best. I set them with epoxy. Epoxy is stronger than super glue in holding a screw. I put them into the bait at angle. I angle the line tie wire and tail twist wire up towards the top of the bait. I will put the belly twist wire in at angle wherever it will fit, but prefer it to be angled forward. I have yet to see a wire twist eye set with epoxy fail. Engineered Angler has some videos on screw vs. twist wire and epoxy vs. superglue that are real informative. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDNXd8ILnJ0&t=34s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIEhsMILC08 Next, I like the .072 and .092 stainless screw eyes. When I use these, I set the eye of the screw into a recessed cup in the lure body a bit. I can fill the recess with epoxy to reduce the chance of the eye opening up by making sure the part where the eye could open is embedded in epoxy. I would be worried about a cotter pin with superglue. Cotter pins are fairly smooth. I think a big fish could pull them out. If I were to use cotter pins, I would score the end going in the lure body and set it with epoxy.
  11. Welcome to the site. I use the Lure Parts Online .072 and .092 stainless screw eyes on some baits. https://www.lurepartsonline.com/-092-Magnum-Screw-Eyes https://www.lurepartsonline.com/Stainless-Screw-Eyes On others, I make twisted wire screw eyes from Malin or US Wire and Cable stainless safety lock wire from Amazon. 041”, .051”, and .062” depending on the size of the lure. https://www.amazon.com/Wire-Stainless-NASM20995-AMS5697-051-Dispenser/dp/B01FVQVNCQ/ref=sr_1_2?crid=OME95KFSDICD&keywords=.051+safety+wire&qid=1643680742&sprefix=051+safety+wire%2Caps%2C88&sr=8-2 https://www.amazon.com/Malin-MS20995C-Stainless-Lockwire-Canister/dp/B00945V5QU/ref=sr_1_3?crid=OME95KFSDICD&keywords=.051+safety+wire&qid=1643680820&sprefix=051+safety+wire%2Caps%2C88&sr=8-3 I twist the wire with these 9” pliers. https://www.amazon.com/Safetywist-Aircraft-Racing-Safety-Twister/dp/B00U363P3K/ref=sr_1_15?crid=SWG7YJ2UKO7L&keywords=9+safety+wire+pliers&qid=1643680990&sprefix=9%22+saftey+%2Caps%2C108&sr=8-15 As for wood, I get pine, Western red cedar, and poplar for the big box hardware stores. I comb through the piles for the best pieces. I pick up other wood where ever I can find it – fallen branches, discarded furniture, handles from broken tools, craft stores. For balsa and basswood, you can try online craft sites and amazon. You could also try PVC boards from the hardware stores. There is an excellent post pinned near the top of the Hard Bait forum. Jim
  12. JD_mudbug

    Wire Size

    I no longer use piano wire for bass. It gets mangled too much. As for the dimension size of the frame, I use small frames for bass in a few situations. One is early spring when there are lots of small baitfish. I have made some small Pond Magic type spinnerbaits to match the small baitfish. The other situations are water coverage and deep 'cranking' situations. I make a Rocket Shad type small frame heavy head spinnerbait for those. I use stainless wire on those small frame baits.
  13. For bigger baits, musky/pike waters, and saltwater, I have been trying out the Tactical Angler Power clips. For me, they are too bulky to use on a typical bass lure. I have only used them the past couple of years. Easy to change and strong. After extended use, they sometimes can develop a gap like a sprung split ring and need to be replaced. I haven't had any issues yet. https://www.amazon.com/Tactical-Anglers-Power-Clips-125lb-Bulk/dp/B00CFU18IG/ref=as_li_ss_tl?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1506089014&sr=1-3&keywords=tactical+anglers+power+clips&linkCode=sl1&tag=jcoutu55-20&linkId=603eed98fccd927b028acbf5a1b8b328 I have not used this type of connector long enough to honestly give on opinion durability and potential failures. But, they are easy to change lures with. It could be a way to go for people with hand issues that make using snaps and tying knots difficult. A few companies are making smaller sizes for typical bass fishing situations. I have not used these smaller ones. https://www.tacklewarehouse.com/P-Line_Technical_Snap/descpage-TPBB.html https://www.tacklewarehouse.com/SPRO_Prime_Snap/descpage-SPNSP.html
  14. I tie to the lure's split ring on suspending jerkbait like a Vision 110. When I have a lure that suspends well, I don't want to change that with a snap. I don't want to change the angle jerkbaits sit in the water either. On other lures, I use a snap. I will use the snap type like Mark does. The closing end on those types of snaps hook around the side wire and end inside the outer frame of the snap. Nothing for them to catch on. I have yet to have one open. I like the Decoy Egg snaps as they are round at the lure nose tie. Owner makes one too. https://www.tacklewarehouse.com/Decoy_Egg_Snap_7pk/descpage-DEGGS.html Tying knots can be difficult in rough water, high winds or cold weather. I don't want to waste time struggling to re-tie when I need to change lures. Snaps can weaken over time from opening and closing. I toss my used ones after a while.
  15. Sorry, I thought you were talking about the dulling. Chris is right. I use the floor wax right after the reflective finish, paint the back/belly/details, and top coat with a 2 part epoxy. Lately, I have been using D2T.
  16. I have not used nail foils but I have used various foil tapes, adhesive craft and fishing lure foils, foil skin lure wraps, and assorted chrome, metallic, and mirror paints. They all go dull to some extent. You may want to try floor wax to coat the lure after foiling. I have only used wax a few times and it does keep much more of the reflectiveness. https://www.tackleunderground.com/community/topic/38203-chrome-paint/
  17. It is silicone tubing cut into sections. LPO, Janns, Barlows have the collars. https://www.lurepartsonline.com/01-Regular-Skirt-Collars https://www.jannsnetcraft.com/skirt-collars-rattles/345431.aspx https://barlowstackle.com/regular-skirt-collars-b/ You can also find them on eBay and Amazon. If you are talking about getting a length of the tubing uncut, I don't think I have seen tubing with the same wall thickness as a skirt collar for sale. You can find various diameters of silicone tubing on Amazon. Most of the uncut lengths of tubing are thin-walled. Just an observation - I avoid the clear collars and the transparent amber or 'natural' ones. Those collars seem to break down faster once exposed to to sun and water. The solid color ones last much longer. Plus, the solid ones usually get gummy and stretched out before they fail. You can see when they are about to fail and can re-band the skirt. It's tough to tell when the clear or transparent collars are about to fail sometimes. You usually find out when there is a pile of skirt strands at the bottom of the storage box. If you are looking for a specific colored collar and can't find it (for example blue), you can use a white collar and color it with a Sharpie. The color lasts for a long time.
  18. Thanks for posting this. I have a couple of Magdrafts and did not know the wire was open like that and could pull out. I have to do the same type of thing to R bend spinnerbaits in pike waters to keep the leader from sliding down the bait's wire. This spring from a pen is a creative solution. Now, I have to be wary if another angler asks to borrow a pen.
  19. The lifting sounds like something was still off-gassing. Did you use a sealer on the bait before painting? The sealer may not have dried completely but the paint on top of the sealer did. There could be moisture in the wood that escaped after the paint has dried. The moisture is trapped underneath the paint and works its way out. You may want to dry the wood in an oven before sealing. The lifting by itself could have been something on the paint like fingerprint oil that prevented the clear coat from sticking. You have the cloudiness and the lifting which most likely means a moisture issue. It has to be in the wood or from some other step along the way. Something was not completely dry before the next layer was added. In addition to drying the wood, you could hit the bait after the sealer has dried with a hairdryer and let it sit some more, and hit each layer of paint with the hairdryer too, just too make sure you are not covering something not fully dried. I get the cloudiness sometimes when I clear coat a bait on a rainy day. The key is to be lucky and have it happen on a white bait. Most resins can take a lot of heat once cured. It would have to be extreme or open flame. I don't think the heat from being in car would be enough. You can try to find out what the temperature range for the resin is. See if there is a Technical Data Sheet and Safety Data Sheet for the product. What usually happens with the heat is the moisture trapped in the wood, sealer, base coat paints, etc. get turned into vapor faster causing the lifting and cloudiness. If the resin is heated too much during application, it usually kicks off before you can apply it and is filled with air bubbles. The runaway kickoff reaction usually gives off a bad smell. I once used a torch excessively to pop the bubbles in the resin after mixing. I started to smell it and tried to finish applying it. It kicked off as I was applying it and the brush got stuck to the lure.
  20. Hi Lochie, I take it you still haven't found a good clear coat in Australia. The cloudiness could be amine blush. If the resin is fully cured, try wiping the bait down with rubbing alcohol or warm soapy water and then pat dry to see if it helps. It can occur in cool or humid conditions or from the bait not being completely dry. You may want to heat set the paint with a hairdryer or heat gun on low. Maybe wait 1-2 days for the paint to fully dry before applying the resin. You could also need a dehumidifier. Check the preferred temp range and humidity for the resin on the package or company website. You will get more help if you tell the resin used or other details on how it is mixed, applied, rotisserie or not, etc. There might be someone on here using the same product. https://www.tackleunderground.com/community/topic/36592-epoxyd2t-issues/#comment-298961 By blutches do you mean air bubbles or thicker uneven lumps of resin? Thick uneven resin could mean it is curing before it can level out which could also be a temperature/humidity issue, rotisserie speed is too fast or too slow, the lure is flipping suddenly on the rotisserie usually at the top or bottom of the rotation, or too much resin is applied to the lure. You may also need to thin your resin a bit with a few drop of denatured alcohol. Air bubbles can be from mixing too aggressively or with something that is more likely to introduce bubbles like a wood stick. You can mix with a plastic mixing stick and quickly pass a torch over the resin to pop the bubbles after mixing. Below is a collection of posts some of which you may have already read. I threw them in here just in case. Lots of good info about clear coat issues. https://www.tackleunderground.com/community/topic/37686-tacky-epoxy-check-your-temps/ https://www.tackleunderground.com/community/topic/37532-new-guy-old-questions/ https://www.tackleunderground.com/community/topic/12510-trying-to-achieve-a-flawless-finish/ https://www.tackleunderground.com/community/topic/36877-epoxy-issues-and-lure-turner-questions/?tab=comments#comment-301056 https://www.tackleunderground.com/community/topic/38177-resin-clear-coat-problems/ Jim
  21. The Jann's chart has 2 bodies figured in. One is called the head. The head is a small body, usually pointy at the top and flared at the bottom, that goes on top of the body. It makes using the chart difficult. You will have to use lower common denominator addition to get a total body weight of the head and body. Plus they could be using all solid beads which for me is too pricey. The thing I use most on the Jann's chart is the total weight. I bought a cheap ounce and gram digital scale on Amazon. A scale is useful to double check the listed weights of the component. I sometimes find the listed weights are off. I put everything on the scale - blade, beads, shaft, clevis, treble hook. That will leave the body to get to the total weight. I use hollow or plastic beads except for a small solid metal bead below the clevis. For a 1/4 oz spinner, I throw everything on the scale and usually need a 1/8 oz weight body to get to near a 1/4 oz total weight with the listed components on the chart (#3 blade, #2 clevis, shaft, beads, #4 hook). This gives you a baseline. A range of weights will work and everyone has their own preference. With a scale, you can drop down body weights, add additional beads or a head body, swap in a different hook sizes to see how the various components effect total weight. Then you can keep notes to which ones you like. You will not get a specific answer as to what is going to work best. It depends of the body of water, depth, weather, species of fish etc. It's why I have a range of different weight spinners for a given size. I make my spinners heavier than Azsouth. I typically use 1/8, 3/16 and 1/4 bodies which are typically weights either brass, lead or tungsten. My typical #5 iline is a 1/4 oz or 7 gram body, .035 or .040 shaft, 1 small solid bead, 1-2 hollow or plastic beads, and #2 treble for a 1/2 oz total weight. I have made #5 spinners with 1/8 oz bodies to a full 1 oz body and they all catch fish. They just run at different depths. If I mark fish in 10 feet plus, I will going with the heaviest spinner. If I am fishing shallow or from shore, I will start with the lightest one.
  22. Safety-pin spinnerbaits are nice but pre-made heads can be hard to find. I also don't pour lead anymore. LPO used to sell spinnerbaits heads where you could pick the wire form, head mold, and hook. You had to order a minimum of 25. I have done that in the past. I could not find that on their website anymore so I think they no longer do that. You might want to email them or one of the other places that sells spinnerbait heads if you want safety-pin heads. I am like Cadman. I use R bend for bass. I use loop wire for pike, musky, and saltwater. If I want to use a R bend in those situations, I will use small piece of latex tube or a small o-ring on the R bend to keep the line or leader from moving.
  23. +1 for Titebond. It usually costs a bit more for Titebond III but it's what I use. Titebond III is slightly stronger than II and rated as waterproof. Titebond II is rated only as weatherproof/water resistant. For a 16 oz bottle, Titebond III is $1-2 more at around $8. Titebond III does take longer to dry, 10 minutes as opposed to 5. Both II and III are good enough for regular size baits. For big baits, saltwater, musky/pike, I would use III for the slightly more strength and better holding up to water penetration which is more likely in those situations. http://www.titebond.com/community/the-big-three
  24. If you have spare cheap blades, it doesn't hurt to try anything. I would try narrowing the top first. If I were to try modifying the bottom, I would first try to blunt the blade at the very bottom, flatten that curve a bit. That might make like an Indiana. I think if you narrow sides at the bottom that will probably cut lift. It would be more like a willow.
  25. I don't know. Do you mean filing down the edges of the top quarter of the blade to make the end where the hole is more pointy? I haven't tried that. I am not a vortician, a vortices expert. My guess is that could cause the blade to flare out wider away from the shaft which should give more vibration and probably slow the spin rate. It could cause the finish to break down faster. On a steel blade, you could end up getting rust. Might be best to try that on a cheap brass blade. Somewhere in my storage I have the blade from a Mepps Double Cross spinner. The blade is made up two overlapping half blades joined by a rivet that is set into the hole. You can adjust the flare on the blade by spreading apart the halves. The theory was having one spinner blade that would act of as different blades. That spinner never seemed to catch on. My got relegated to storage after the shaft got mangled on a snag.
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