Bass-Boys Posted August 15, 2011 Report Share Posted August 15, 2011 so jason how much is it for them to just ship drums straight to the customer since you are not big enough to handle them? i know about what freight will run from anywhere in TX to me i just need to know what the cost per drum is to see if it is even feasible for me to even contemplate changing plastisols Worm, I think jason said he buys the ingredients and mixes it him self.. So I do not think there is a place that has his mix in 55 gallons. thats the way I read it . Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerworm Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 well i am sure he isnt buying enough to just mix up 5 gallons at a time i could be wrong that would explain why the 5 gallons are higher than most??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bass-Boys Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 well i am sure he isnt buying enough to just mix up 5 gallons at a time i could be wrong that would explain why the 5 gallons are higher than most??? in post #16 of this thread, Jason says ,the stuff he gets ,, some come to him in 55 gallons & some in 5 gallon then they mix it up to there specs from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GB GONE Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 I also have talked to friends throughout business and seem to think you have copied or borrowed a few of the ideas. Those guys are full of it!!!!!! Look over the mold selection on "your friends" sites and see who has copied what. Most make almost exact copies of baits out there now. I know how CCM has taken steps to NOT do this. Also, give the man credit for taking the time to research and test plastisol that would work for hand pourers and specifically the microwave. All that took lots of time and money I'll bet. If he didn't see a need and didn't hear the constant complaints about what was already available, he would not have gone for it I'd guess. I am SURE he didn't do it to have his service to our country questioned!!!!!!!! My guess is you have never spoken to the guy so you really don't know him or you would take his comments for what he means and not how you are interpreting them. To bad as he is a nice guy to deal with like many of the others out there in this business. Soooo, spend time on the topic of the plastisol instead of non topic comments. Have you even tried this plastisol? Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffhill Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 I completely agree with Jim, seems to me Jason is doing everything in his power to make our lives easier as bait makers and do our country a favor at the same time. I just wish there were more companies out there that would buy all there materials in the U.S. More of us might have jobs if they did!!! Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kajan Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 Those guys are full of it!!!!!! Look over the mold selection on "your friends" sites and see who has copied what. Most make almost exact copies of baits out there now. I know how CCM has taken steps to NOT do this. Jim Hummm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GB GONE Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 Hummm Is that your results from testing this plastisol???? Not sure I understand your input on this thread? Be glad to point out the obvious copies mold makers have currently for sale but that would be another fun thread, this is for the CCm plastisol. Have you used it Kajan???? Ditto!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerworm Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 it seems to me i have read or heard from one of the plastisol manufacturers that the heat stabilizer used in our type of plastisol only comes in 55 gallon drum quantites and they would rather you buy 10-20 at a time instead of 1. so even if you got 1 drum of that why wouldnt you be able to make a drum of end use plastisol? and i agree with kajun some of us know a little history here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBK Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 Those guys are full of it!!!!!! Look over the mold selection on "your friends" sites and see who has copied what. Most make almost exact copies of baits out there now. I know how CCM has taken steps to NOT do this. Jim The designs of some of his baits do look similar to bears, and since he used to work with bear (before he threw him away and went on his own business) I dont think it is a fluke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GB GONE Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 it seems to me i have read or heard from one of the plastisol manufacturers that the heat stabilizer used in our type of plastisol only comes in 55 gallon drum quantites and they would rather you buy 10-20 at a time instead of 1. so even if you got 1 drum of that why wouldnt you be able to make a drum of end use plastisol? and i agree with kajun some of us know a little history here... Why don't you just ask Jason about the 55 gallon drums himself? I believe he has stated that he was not offering 55 gallon drums yet. Ask him directly by email or phone call, he will tell you rather than speculate here. Maybe it is just like Ford not wanting to offer a bright green F150, when the market is there, they will sell it. This topic is about CCM plastisol. Not history or whatever else you guys want to change the subject to. So, have any of you used the plastisol? Can you comment on it vs the others like Calhoun's, LC, Ozark, Lureworks?????? I figured that was the best you could do pow.... No true information, just a poor attempt at sarcasm.... Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GB GONE Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 Ok Jim, I have used it and it seems like one formula of a spike-it brand, acts a little the same. Maybe they changed a few things for CCR. Bear and CCR were going to be partners at some point as read somewhere, fell through. I haven't it long enough to see a settling problem yet. It does start white and you cook it comes out about the same as others or close. Is this better? Maybe your color of the month should be brown. Oh well you can fuss this out with others, cheers mate! DUH!!!!!!!! Can't even get CCM right? Who the hell is CCR. I guess you have it all figured out. Post up some baits in the gallery. Maybe your color of the month is yellow. Let see it big talker..... This is a bait forum, not just a place to type stuff.... Of course, jump in stir up and then let others fuss it out. Question a guys service to his country and call him arrogant because he is a US citizen and then jump out. I am going to get kicked off TU soon over a guy that only stirs things up and never helps out. Bet you have never served this country. Please don't call me mate as I would never associate with anyone that questions a man's service to his country. CCM is NOT a formula of spike-it but you have insisted that from early on. Call Spike-It, they will tell you that is a LIE.... BBK, what baits are designed close to Bear's? If you say frog, go back and look at things. Bear's updated frog came out well after the CCM. The original was quite different. Remember this, the owner of this forum even said Bear started his business by copying the guy that started making the pots here. All good but if you want to get it all started again, be sure you know the whole deal. Also, go back and ask those that helped Bear start up what he did after he got started. Lots of one side of the story going down for sure. This isn't to drag Bear in cause he is a good guy. Leave him out of this. You guys are just attempting to drag down a good guy like Jason. Other companies could have developed their own plastisol but didn't for lack of money, effort or whatever. Give the guy credit for going out there and doing it instead of trying to tear him down. Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baitbud Posted August 19, 2011 Report Share Posted August 19, 2011 Hi Guys I follow this site with great interest and have learnt quite a bit from its members, so much so that I run my own business here in South Africa and I have developed my own plastisols over many years. I have a few friends state side that I export to and one in Canada. Many Moons ago when I developed a "Bio Plastisol" i did a lot of research and the American ANSI standard is very clear on the requirements for Bio plastic and the major point is that it must compost in two weeks ant then their is a residue limit measured by its effect on Dafnea (small invertbrates). All the dope is on their website, for a fee of course. One of the members mentioned earlier that its bio plastic until you throw in the additives, this is very true and to produce a plastisol that is full on bio would involve using FDA approved food grade ingredients and that would inflate the price of the end product. We have produced many forms of plastisols for different uses but also to meet requirements of many countries regulations regarding bio etc. thanks for all the valuable info and keep up the good work. cheers Nutt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallmouthaholic Posted August 21, 2011 Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 $176.96 is just too steep for 5 gallons of plastisol- even if it includes shipping Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolinamike Posted August 21, 2011 Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 $176.96 is just too steep for 5 gallons of plastisol- even if it includes shipping Wow. At the current price per lb that would make it $1294.80 higher per 55 gallon drum than the current market prices right now. That''s $4.42 per lb. And I also heard that LC has just went up $27 per 5 gallon bucket. For the hobbyist who may be just selling at a local tackle shop, there is absolutely no way to compete with competition at these prices. I understand now why 55 gallon drums aren't offered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolinamike Posted August 21, 2011 Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 Hi Mike, I sincerely appreciate your passion. I'll defer to your knowledge on all the different mfg. pricing, but last I checked the biggest variance I found was less than $400, not $800. This is the correction I received on page 2 of this thread. It appears I was more than right after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GB GONE Posted August 21, 2011 Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 Wow. At the current price per lb that would make it $1294.80 higher per 55 gallon drum than the current market prices right now. That''s $4.42 per lb. And I also heard that LC has just went up $27 per 5 gallon bucket. For the hobbyist who may be just selling at a local tackle shop, there is absolutely no way to compete with competition at these prices. I understand now why 55 gallon drums aren't offered. You can't just extrapolate that way Mike!!! You also have to consider you are using the pricing that is including shipping, not just the product price. That would make your numbers incorrect from the start. How did you get $4.42 per lb????? 55 gallons/$1294.80 = .00442 x 100 = $4.42 per lb??? If so, that would put Spike It pourasol at $5.26 per lb. Incorrect math. I will agree the prices are high.Too high for everything!!! LC went up a good while ago. Think it was May... Problem for me is that at the $132 for 5 with LC plus shipping of $26. $158.. I'll pay a extra for M-F or CCM not having to stir and scrape every day. M-F is almost the same at $175 to my house. Even if something was $20 a gallon but produced inferior baits, you could not compete. Cheaper plastisols require far more prep time and scent to cover up the pvc's when hand pouring. You can't disallow that time cost either. Time is money with hand pouring/hand injecting. The great thing is that there are choices available to all on what to buy so nobody is forced to buy what they don't want. Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolinamike Posted August 21, 2011 Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 You can't just extrapolate that way Mike!!! You also have to consider you are using the pricing that is including shipping, not just the product price. That would make your numbers incorrect from the start. How did you get $4.42 per lb????? 55 gallons/$1294.80 = .00442 x 100 = $4.42 per lb??? If so, that would put Spike It pourasol at $5.26 per lb. Incorrect math. I will agree the prices are high.Too high for everything!!! LC went up a good while ago. Think it was May... Problem for me is that at the $132 for 5 with LC plus shipping of $26. $158.. I'll pay a extra for M-F or CCM not having to stir and scrape every day. M-F is almost the same at $175 to my house. Even if something was $20 a gallon but produced inferior baits, you could not compete. Cheaper plastisols require far more prep time and scent to cover up the pvc's when hand pouring. You can't disallow that time cost either. Time is money with hand pouring/hand injecting. The great thing is that there are choices available to all on what to buy so nobody is forced to buy what they don't want. Jim Jim, the way you figure this is easy. 5 gallons of plastisol weighs 40 lbs. You divide the cost of the 5 gallon bucket of plastisol by the 40 lbs which is the weight. This comes out to $4.42 per lb. So if you figure Spike-It which is $95.00 for a 5 gallon bucket and divide it by 40 lbs, then you get a cost per lb of $2.38 not $5.26. Plastisol is only sold to hand pourers and hobbyists by the gallon everyone else pays per lb. That makes Spike-It $2.04 less per lb. Jim, if the shipping to your house for LC which is located in Indiana is $26 then the shipping in your same state would less than the cost of shipping from LC. Is that correct? If so, even at $26 for shipping that's $37 less than LC, so what would be your actual shipping cost from CCM? And I notice that smallmouthaholic says that even if that includes shipping, so I'm just taking for granted that shipping is included. Now check my math and see if you come up with the same thing. And as far as the extrapolation there was no assuming or estimating done it was a statement of the facts. Jim, I understand you want to help Jason, but to pop off like I would post something that was not true hurts buddy. And keep in mind I do use between between 50 and 70 drums a season, so I do have a little bit of knowledge about what I do for a living. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GB GONE Posted August 21, 2011 Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 Jim, the way you figure this is easy. 5 gallons of plastisol weighs 40 lbs. You divide the cost of the 5 gallon bucket of plastisol by the 40 lbs which is the weight. This comes out to $4.42 per lb. So if you figure Spike-It which is $95.00 for a 5 gallon bucket and divide it by 40 lbs, then you get a cost per lb of $2.38 not $5.26. Plastisol is only sold to hand pourers and hobbyists by the gallon everyone else pays per lb. That makes Spike-It $2.04 less per lb. Jim, if the shipping to your house for LC which is located in Indiana is $26 then the shipping in your same state would less than the cost of shipping from LC. Is that correct? If so, even at $26 for shipping that's $37 less than LC, so what would be your actual shipping cost from CCM? And I notice that smallmouthaholic says that even if that includes shipping, so I'm just taking for granted that shipping is included. Now check my math and see if you come up with the same thing. And as far as the extrapolation there was no assuming or estimating done it was a statement of the facts. Jim, I understand you want to help Jason, but to pop off like I would post something that was not true hurts buddy. And keep in mind I do use between between 50 and 70 drums a season, so I do have a little bit of knowledge about what I do for a living. So if he offers a 55local gallon drum for less than your extrapolation, you will offer a very public apology for incorrect info. This is like Toyota saying they can tell what Ford is going to charge. Come on, get off it and call the guy if you need or want a 55 gallon drum. All the rest of this talk is speculation. Compare performance and get back to me Mike. Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kajan Posted August 21, 2011 Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 BBK, what baits are designed close to Bear's? If you say frog, go back and look at things. Bear's updated frog came out well after the CCM. The original was quite different. Remember this, the owner of this forum even said Bear started his business by copying the guy that started making the pots here. All good but if you want to get it all started again, be sure you know the whole deal. Also, go back and ask those that helped Bear start up what he did after he got started. Lots of one side of the story going down for sure. This isn't to drag Bear in cause he is a good guy. Leave him out of this. You guys are just attempting to drag down a good guy like Jason. Other companies could have developed their own plastisol but didn't for lack of money, effort or whatever. Give the guy credit for going out there and doing it instead of trying to tear him down. Jim Well since you asked the question. I was in Bears chat when Jason from Caney Creek Molds, wanna made damn sure I got that correct came in and showed me his new frog, which was almost identical to the one Bear was selling. Now you can call me a liar if you want, but I am affraid your off on many of your statments. That is not the only thing that was copied. And yea Bear is a very nice guy, a good frien' and almost too nice in my opinion. I know alot of truths, so I would not push any issues too much der GB. But in the essence of dis thread, I do find it odd like others, that larger volumes of material is not purchased to keep price down. Oh and GB, I think der are actually closer to 50 gal in a drum of plastisol, I could be wrong, but you might wanna check and let me know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GB GONE Posted August 21, 2011 Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 What do molds have to do with this Kajan? I could care less. Bear copied all his stuff from existing baits or current baits. Big deal. What is your point? Again, you guys are trying to tear this guy sown because he is on the way up. Why doesn't your guy go out and make his own plastisol instead of carrying junk after junk? He can't, won't??? If you switch brands you cathy every few months what kind of crap is that??? Give it up and start a thread on what you feel he copied or whatever your deal is. I have bought from Bear, COM, LC, Del etc and continue to. You guys are biased and it shows. Plastisol performance?????? Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolinamike Posted August 21, 2011 Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 So if he offers a 55local gallon drum for less than your extrapolation, you will offer a very public apology for incorrect info. This is like Toyota saying they can tell what Ford is going to charge. Come on, get off it and call the guy if you need or want a 55 gallon drum. All the rest of this talk is speculation. Compare performance and get back to me Mike. Jim First off, what do you mean by 55 gallon local? Do you buy yours local or is it shipped to you? And no I would not apologize because cheaper for 55 gallon drums is expected in the hand pour and hobbyist part of this industry. I didn't bother to mention that if you buy a 55 gallon drum from Spike-It or any of the others you get a price break, but of course you already know this. There again, it's more about favoritism than facts. Can you tell me who's out there right now that doesn't give a price break on a 55 gallon drum? I wouldn't apologize for something that is standard and expected. All these mathematics were figured on price per lb for 5 gallons, nothing more nothing less. But at the price per lb for 5 gallons right now then the drum price comes up correct and you're telling me to call him to ask him about a 55 gallon drum and it's already been plainly stated that he doesn't sell by the drum. What I was referring to was the price for a 5 gallon bucket, which shipped comes out to $4.42 per lb, which is more expensive than LC or Spike-It. This is the fact that I am stating, nothing more nothing less. And by the way at these prices, I can't even think about comparing performance, the cost is too much to experiment with. And you like using that word extrapolation, and as I told you before there are no estimations being done here, I am going merely by prices stated on websites. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GB GONE Posted August 21, 2011 Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 (edited) That is my point Mike. You get a price break but you are making the amount like he wouldn't give one. Local came from my phone back to adding in stuff. Auto text. Mike, you are biased to Spike It, no doubt. Start another thread on it and I will be glad to post my last results with that. This thread is about CCM plastisol and who got it. What part of that don't you guys get? If you want to talk about off topic stuff, start another thread. Jim Edited August 21, 2011 by ghostbaits Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBK Posted August 21, 2011 Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 Mike, you are biased to Spike It, no doubt. Start another thread on it and I will be glad to post my last results with that. Jim Sounds to me like you are a little biased to CCM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GB GONE Posted August 21, 2011 Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 I am biased to the company that is being attacked without cause. Same shit happened with Kevin molds a while ago. Cry and moan is all that I here. Poke and pry. No info on the topic, just unrelated posts. If you can't get behind quality products, attack them or try to belittle them. Products stand on their own merits. Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBK Posted August 21, 2011 Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 I am biased to the company that is being attacked without cause. Same shit happened with Kevin molds a while ago. Cry and moan is all that I here. Poke and pry. No info on the topic, just unrelated posts. If you can't get behind quality products, attack them or try to belittle them. Products stand on their own merits. Jim well to be honest, you are kinda provoking it.. If the product will stand on its own merits then stop bumping and trying to defend it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
