Bears New Injector

[gone2long]

Posted Today, 11:33 AM

mrbilky, on 28 May 2012 - 08:56 AM, said:

Free speech is all good but why ask questions or make suggested modifications to the open forum when this thing isn't even delivered to the end user yet, how about shooting Bear a PM or openly request his answers to your questions it's well known people will never come down from their soap box support for the guys they deal with but premature is an understatement for sure and pre "mature" being the key word here.

Edited to read: Bear posted while I was typing but my statement stands.

bear21211 said:

Thanks for your input and if I can answer any questions abut it by all means post them up and I will answer to the best of my ability.

Yep, left em no choice but to go on the defensive. Those types of questions are for the manufacturer not people who take a one dimensional photo/video and take hacks at it, but do look forward to your modifications to improve upon someone else's product after all it's the TU way!

Edited May 28, 2012 by mrbilky

[Largehead Louie]

Looks like a neat product for the guys making baits as a 2nd income, or guys with a lot of molds. If I was that big, I would be looking at purchasing one of these units. However, I am just small potatos and have maybe a dozen injection molds, so I am not ready for something this extravagant.

Bear has a great idea here, I am sure he will sell a bunch of sets.

[CNC Molds N Stuff]

Yep, left em no choice but to go on the defensive. Those types of questions are for the manufacturer not people who take a one dimensional photo/video and take hacks at it, but do look forward to your modifications to improve upon someone else's product after all it's the TU way!

Defensive! You must be a real Bear's fanboy. You totally ignored the fact that I said I would buy one and overall I liked it. Instead got your undies in a twist over nothing. A critique of one point where I see a potential safety issue. Even Bear recognized it if only to minimize it. Best of luck to you, but you will not ever shut me up no matter how superior you act in support of your player. I happen to like the way Bear does business, but I would never ever polish over some points as a "fan." I am not on TU to blindly support Bear or any other manufacturer. I am here to learn something, and possibly share something back.

I like lots of products. I like Chevy trucks, but I despise the way the company (and all other big players (Ford, Wal-Mart, BassPro, etc)) use their size to manipulate and take advantage of everybody else in the supply chain.

I happen to like CamBam CAM software, but I am also one of the first to report a bug publicly. I like them even more because Andy doesn't quietly fix it and hide that it was ever a problem. Instead he invites public disclosure of issues or potential issues so they can be resolved either in the next edition, or through work arounds.

I like the Bass Tackle twin injector, but if there is an issue with advertised specs I point them out. I'm not his fan. He doesn't pay me to publicly kiss his tushy. He has a good product there, but the 6 oz injector he sold didn't hold 6 ounces. I tried to be nice and not name them originally, but that went over like a ton of bricks. The heck with it. I point it out and name it now.

You don't like the work I do on a product. Ok fine. Point it out. I'll either change it, ignore it, explain why I do it that way, tell you to live with it, or not. I don't care if you point out your concern rationally in a public forum.

In recap for those too dense to understand what I said originally.

1. Over all from what I can see I like the product, and I would buy one.

2. I see a potential safety issue in the fact that the plastic valve appears to be open in the same position where the injectors could potentially fall out. after some wear.

Edited May 28, 2012 by Bob La Londe

[Frank]

Free speech is all good but why ask questions or make suggested modifications to the open forum when this thing isn't even delivered to the end user yet, how about shooting Bear a PM or openly request his answers to your questions it's well known people will never come down from their soap box support for the guys they deal with but premature is an understatement for sure and pre "mature" being the key word here.

Edited to read: Bear posted while I was typing but my statement stands.

I asked the same thing when the Bears guy went after me when I posted the Twinjector video. I had the first one so I doubt anyone had one yet. I also introduced the locking pin that was easy to see that it was simple and easy to use and still people insisted the tips dont fall off if no pin is there. The maker of that product made it a point to make all of his that way from then on. He did not fight the fact that yes it cost more to do it that way and did not change the price for this addition.

Bear openly answered the questions and concerns I had and I respect the answers he gave. I am one of the guys that Goes through ALOT of plastic and can see a need for this product. I might even buy one you never know. Being in business and know a first inpression is one you never get back,I have a hard time showing customers my shop with kitchen appliances as a means of making a product including a griddle and I use that all the time. And I will be the first one to admit I have the Jacobs press out for them to see just for the LOOK aspect of it. Now if the two pots were made for plastic and were custom in nature I would buy one in a heart beat. But that is just me. Frank

[gone2long]

Bob plain and simple your a Righteous son of a $$$$$, If your all that step it up and sell to the masses, your nothing but a hack! And I'm far from a Bear's fan but your weak assessment of a video speaks volumes to your character.

So Frank you clearly state your alliance to someone other than Bear but why degrade a system you have no experience with, on the face value of a video why not invest in this unit and access it the same way you advocated Jacob's system? You two are lame no matter how you dice it, if your as bad as you say you are then produce something that can be used by the masses.

[Largehead Louie]

Ya'll are gonna get a good thread locked and deleted. Bear has really brought out a very unique, neat product. I think a thread like this has potential to be good for Bear, and end-users. Several individuals on here are machinists to some degree, and I would think that Bear would appreciate their input (good or bad).

[CNC Molds N Stuff]

Bob, plain and simple your a Righteous son of a $$$$$,

Perhaps, but name calling and prejudice doesn't invalidate my point of view.

If your all that step it up and sell to the masses,

Nope I much prefer doing the occassional custom job instead. The masses are a pain in the wazoo to deal with. I do that in my day job every day as a licensed communication contractor. All what exactly anyway? An observant person who can see how something works when presented with a video by the manufacturer showing how it works? ROFL.

your nothing but a hack!

Oh, I admit I am a hack, but I'm not "just a hack." LOL. I actually do things, learn things and build things. Heck three and a half years ago I could barely program a CNC machine to engrave your name on something. Now I do 3D work, design parts, retrofit machines, and am in the progress of laying out a setup to build a couple prototype CNC machines. This in my spare time. I had to laugh when I was trying to get some help with some of my high speed processes when a real machinist told me, "You know Bob. You are probably really the only person who is an expert in what you are teaching yourself to do." I'm not, but it brought home to me that there really is a lot out there. Maybe someday I won't be a hack at all, but I refuse to only limit myself to the past. Edison was a hack too. ROFL.

And I'm far from a Bear's fan but your weak assessment of a video speaks volumes to your character.

That doesn't even make sense. It was a fair assessment based on the information provided in the video. In fact it indicated an overall positive assessment of the product, and specifically indicated that the video did not look doctored or staged. If Bear didn't want me to watch it he should have titled it, "Bob, Don't Watch This Video." You are certainly acting like an offended fanboy.

So Frank you clearly state your alliance to someone other than Bear

Alliance? Really, and you claim not to be a fanboy then shoe horn other people into such a narrow scope. He has some Bears products. So do I. I also have some Bass Tackle, Jacobs, and some M-F products. Does buying a Jacob's injector prohibit you from buying a Bear's product? Since when. I bet Bear's doesn't think so.

but why degrade a system you have no experience with,

He didn't degrade anything, and neither did I. He made a fair assessment of features and potential flaws based on the information provided by the manufacturer. If the manufacturer didn't want us to see the video they wouldn't have published it.

on the face value of a video why not invest in this unit and access it the same way you advocated Jacob's system? You two are lame no matter how you dice it, if your as bad as you say you are then produce something that can be used by the masses.

You are out in left field here. On the face value of the video I said I might buy one. Heck Frank said he might buy one at some point. You are responding irrationally and inconsistently with what was actually said. Frank makes baits for his own customers and subcontracts to make baits for several other bait companies. I suspect he has every qualification to have and voice an opinion.

Ya'll are gonna get a good thread locked and deleted. Bear has really brought out a very unique, neat product. I think a thread like this has potential to be good for Bear, and end-users. Several individuals on here are machinists to some degree, and I would think that Bear would appreciate their input (good or bad).

I would say that Bear is probably a far superior machinst to me... since I'm not a machinist, but a hack. LOL. On the other hand I was making my own molds and teaching myself how to make them better several years ago. While Bear was still buying his molds from somebody else.

Sigh...

Edited May 28, 2012 by Bob La Londe

[Largehead Louie]

I would say that Bear is probably a far superior machinst to me... since I'm not a machinist, but a hack. LOL. On the other hand I was making my own molds and teaching myself how to make them better several years ago. - Bob

[Richard Prager]

Wow, I'm glad I only put two gifs up there! Although, this is one of the better threads I've read recently, I am glad that I now only paint cheap Chinese Knock Offs. If they don't swim true.......I tell them they are "hunters" and everybody is happy!

That's a freakin' joke just in case nobody knows that I am a sarcastic, instigating SOB

[SHK]

Wow, I'm glad I only put two gifs up there! Although, this is one of the better threads I've read recently, I am glad that I now only paint cheap Chinese Knock Offs. If they don't swim true.......I tell them they are "hunters" and everybody is happy!

That's a freakin' joke just in case nobody knows that I am a sarcastic, instigating SOB

LOL, i always have liked your style Richard LOL.

[CNC Molds N Stuff]

Wow, I'm glad I only put two gifs up there! Although, this is one of the better threads I've read recently, I am glad that I now only paint cheap Chinese Knock Offs. If they don't swim true.......I tell them they are "hunters" and everybody is happy!

That's a freakin' joke just in case nobody knows that I am a sarcastic, instigating SOB

Send me some of those hunters. You got any that will go 270 degrees around a tree and then reverse?

[Richard Prager]

Send me some of those hunters. You got any that will go 270 degrees around a tree and then reverse?

They will actually do that.......until I put the hooks on! Still working on it, though!

[CNC Molds N Stuff]

They will actually do that.......until I put the hooks on! Still working on it, though!

Well if its a really "good" bait the fish won't let go. You don't need any hooks.

[Richard Prager]

Well if its a really "good" bait the fish won't let go. You don't need any hooks.

Not to hijack this thread...................velcro!

[Patrick]

I stopped buying Bears products sight unseen because of the "blind loyality" some folks have for him and his products

It was just too hard to get an honest opinion of the stuff....Sometimes the truth hurts - But its better than sugar coating it

The other mold makers "lack of a cheerleading squad" goes along way with me

Their customer service and products(or lack there of), speak for themselves.(ie the two mold sources out of AZ)

My 2 cents.....

[Frank]

Bob plain and simple your a Righteous son of a $$$$$, If your all that step it up and sell to the masses, your nothing but a hack! And I'm far from a Bear's fan but your weak assessment of a video speaks volumes to your character.

So Frank you clearly state your alliance to someone other than Bear but why degrade a system you have no experience with, on the face value of a video why not invest in this unit and access it the same way you advocated Jacob's system? You two are lame no matter how you dice it, if your as bad as you say you are then produce something that can be used by the masses.

You ever wonder if Bear wants you as a cheerleader? I did not degrade his system I just pointed out my concerns with his product. This is a public forum and it was brought to the attension of all who read this. So why not ask and get an answer here? Many people here just wont ask. I got a phone call asking me about it the morning it was out. He saw somethings that concerned him and asked me what I thought. Is there something wrong with that? When I see something that I think can help me I buy it. I have the first Twinjector sold and the prototype Jacobs machine. Like I said before if it had pots made for plastic I would have bought it. These machines are not the cure all for laminating they are tools that help out the process. Some will still not get it. Believe me it is way more to it than just suck and shoot. Especially with presto pots as they vary from pot to pot ALOT. Frank

[bear21211]

Every time I come over here to answer questions and such this happens. Must be why I do not come here much. The name calling and people jumping up and down about what other people say always gets out of hand.

I never once said this was the perfect system, nor did I say anyone was wrong with their opinions. I tried to answer the concerns that Frank and Bob had with honest answers and I did that. I did say I think this is the best system we have offered to us to date. I will stand by that and if you ever use one I think you will also. We have built pots for this but it drove the cost way up, almost by 600.00 that is why we did not release it that way. Are the pots we using the best in the world ? NO they are not but we have sold over 1600 of them in 4 years and we thought this would be a fairly affordable system if used with the products you have already purchased.

I am not here defending this system and I do not feel I need to. I came on here because I wanted to answer any questions and concerns potential customers may have. I respect people advice and criticism and I have been trying to better the methods we use since I opened the doors at Bears Baits by listening to questions and criticism. I think we have done that and I will continue to better what we do.

I cannot and do not ask any person to sugar coat my products or service. We make mistakes and correct them the best we can. We have grown way faster and gotten way bigger than I ever imagined since starting this and feel privileged to have listened and learned from what people were asking. I am sorry this has become a pissing match again and if anyone needs a question answered you will have to contact me directly.

[SHK]

I stopped buying Bears products sight unseen because of the "blind loyality" some folks have for him and his products

It was just too hard to get an honest opinion of the stuff....Sometimes the truth hurts - But its better than sugar coating it

The other mold makers "lack of a cheerleading squad" goes along way with me

Their customer service and products(or lack there of), speak for themselves.(ie the two mold sources out of AZ)

My 2 cents.....

yup, Del's absolute lack of customer service and piss poor attitude definitely speaks for itself LOL.

[J lure]

Well this this topic is definitely getting deleted.!!!

Ha ha but I agree with Frank.

I enjoy and respect Franks and Bobs opinions because is seems like they have no strings attached or in bed with any particular source. Being a newbie and starting off in the plastic world we need these guys to help the smaller guys with the lack of knowledge to gain more information.

So thank you.

Just my two cents.

[CNC Molds N Stuff]

Every time I come over here to answer questions and such this happens. Must be why I do not come here much. The name calling and people jumping up and down about what other people say always gets out of hand.

I never once said this was the perfect system, nor did I say anyone was wrong with their opinions. I tried to answer the concerns that Frank and Bob had with honest answers and I did that. I did say I think this is the best system we have offered to us to date. I will stand by that and if you ever use one I think you will also. We have built pots for this but it drove the cost way up, almost by 600.00 that is why we did not release it that way. Are the pots we using the best in the world ? NO they are not but we have sold over 1600 of them in 4 years and we thought this would be a fairly affordable system if used with the products you have already purchased.

I am not here defending this system and I do not feel I need to. I came on here because I wanted to answer any questions and concerns potential customers may have. I respect people advice and criticism and I have been trying to better the methods we use since I opened the doors at Bears Baits by listening to questions and criticism. I think we have done that and I will continue to better what we do.

I cannot and do not ask any person to sugar coat my products or service. We make mistakes and correct them the best we can. We have grown way faster and gotten way bigger than I ever imagined since starting this and feel privileged to have listened and learned from what people were asking. I am sorry this has become a pissing match again and if anyone needs a question answered you will have to contact me directly.

Well, I am glad you took the time to respond to the concerns posted here.

Edited May 29, 2012 by Bob La Londe

[Frank]

Well, I am glad you took the time to respond to the concerns posted here.

Me too. Thank you Bear

[smallmouthaholic]

We have built pots for this but it drove the cost way up, almost by 600.00 that is why we did not release it that way. Are the pots we using the best in the world ? NO they are not but we have sold over 1600 of them in 4 years and we thought this would be a fairly affordable system if used with the products you have already purchased.

Showing concern and respect for the consumers' $ already spent and being able to use your existing presto pots is greatly appreciated. A much better and faster system vs. the use of old,non-heated injectors and additional blending blocks- w/o spending a fortune. I'm sure refinements will be offered in the future.

[SHK]

Showing concern and respect for the consumers' $ already spent and being able to use your existing presto pots is greatly appreciated. A much better and faster system vs. the use of old,non-heated injectors and additional blending blocks- w/o spending a fortune. I'm sure refinements will be offered in the future.

exactly, and if you dont like the fact that it uses "cooking pots" (no offense intended Frank) then why not look into buying the heated block/valve assembly and the injector seperate (for half the price of the complete unit) and build your own custom pots?

[CNC Molds N Stuff]

exactly, and if you dont like the fact that it uses "cooking pots" (no offense intended Frank) then why not look into buying the heated block/valve assembly and the injector seperate (for half the price of the complete unit) and build your own custom pots?

That's not a bad idea. I saw that the blocks and injector were offered on-line separately. In fact I didn't see the complete system listed yet.

[Frank]

exactly, and if you dont like the fact that it uses "cooking pots" (no offense intended Frank) then why not look into buying the heated block/valve assembly and the injector seperate (for half the price of the complete unit) and build your own custom pots?

Having what looks like easy to use tools give people the idea that this is easy to do. Having tools they cant get gives a differant perception. Had one customer do just that now he is a competiter. For that fact he even saw my videos. Custom pots are one thing that I will take care of. No offense taken SHK just my way of thinking. I am good at looking after my own money and with so many options for this machine adding custom pots sound like an option too. Frank