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Bending Hooks?

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Has anyone bent a hook to fit a mold? What I'm wanting to do is use a tk180 in a jig mold. Bend it at about 45 to 60 degrees at the end of the eye. I want the eye to stick out just a little unlike most jig hooks that have a long shank after the bend to the eye. Hope this makes sense. I'm just curious as to the strength after bending the straight hook to a 45 degree bend. I've done it a few times and have never broke one off but just wondering if I'm getting lucky? Thanks!

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I've opened up both VMC and Owner Beast swimbait hooks, to get the profile I wanted.  They are the only two hooks that seemed to keep most of their strength after being opened.

If I were going to put a sharp bend in a hook that would be inside a lead body, like a jig head, I'd probably heat them to red hot, bend them, and then quench them in oil, to keep as much of the temper as I could.  

I think the lead would reinforce them, even if they are weakened by the heating and bending.

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I remember in Chemistry class, we would use a fine glass tube in a regular yellow flame and blow. This would generate a high temperature blue flame with a very concentrated heat spot. This would be perfect for heating a hook locally from a candle flame. Just gotta find a suitable fine tube; brass or something like that, doesn't have to be glass.

 

Dave

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You already know the problem, those hooks are forged and not tempered so what will happen is you are going to break about 25%.  I had a bad snag while flipping 2 years ago, I was using braid and flipping heavy cover is one of only 2 situations that I use braid. Well I managed to get my jig out but I did bend the hook, it was much but the point was a little too wide, so I went to bend it just a tiny bit and snap, just like that it broke and now I know after the hook is bent it won't be anywhere near as strong.  So if you feel comfortable bending hooks that is fine, but for me, after seeing how little it took to snap a hook after it was bent was it for me, that thought will never cross my mind ever again.

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I remember in Chemistry class, we would use a fine glass tube in a regular yellow flame and blow. This would generate a high temperature blue flame with a very concentrated heat spot. This would be perfect for heating a hook locally from a candle flame. Just gotta find a suitable fine tube; brass or something like that, doesn't have to be glass.

 

Dave

 

There's a reason you used glass.  It's a poor conductor of heat.

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Thanks for all the replies! I think it will be one of them things. Maybe the hook will hold up maybe it won't. I think maybe the best thing for me to do is test it for weeks before thinking about making them for anyone else. The original jig hook the mold is designed for works great, the eye just sticks out more than I like. I can always redesign the jig. It's just a prototype currently anyway. However it's very hard to find a low profile jig hook. One with the eye basically bent only.

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There are so many variables in heat treating steel that it would probably take up more server space than TU is willing to expend. First of all a lot depends on the type of steel. Then you have temperatures and how fast, or slow, the steel is brought up to those temps and then cooled down. Then you get into reheating the hardened steel at lower temps for specified times to achieve the desired toughness and flexibility.

 

The act of quenching in water or oil, is an often discussed topic. Quenching usually "case hardens" the metal. Case hardening gives you a hard outer shell that can be extremely brittle. Brittleness is not a desired quality for a fish hook.

 

For the guys attempting this at home it's really little more than a crap shoot. We don't have the facilities, and equipment, to control the many variables that are associated with this process.

 

just my :twocents: ,

 

Ben

Edited by RayburnGuy
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Now you added another twist, you are going to make these for someone else? That would be a big no-no for sure. you can test 1 jig or maybe 3 and they may hold up but what about the 4th jig ? the 5th jig? The point is, you don't really have any idea if, or when it will break, and if you are bending it near the eys, is there enough lead covering it that it doesn't break and pull out? I think what you're doing isn't worth it especially if there isn't anything wrong with the stock hook. I wish you luck in what ever route you choose but all I can tell you is I wouldn't bend the hook, I'd either modify the mold or find a mold that fits more closely with what you need.

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Yes I want to sell these someday after I get the prototype ran through all the test. I wanna fish it maybe even all this summer before ever getting it out there to be sold. I ordered more hooks of the original to see how it does through cover and wood. It's not like the eye sticks way out but I just wanted a lower profile eye so I could make a smaller size. Right now I can only make the half ounce. Some only like half once and up but I actually love the 3/8 oz for my smaller jigs. This jig is not quite a small finesse jig but not near a regular jig size. It's original hook I made the mold for is an owner 5103. So only a 3/0 size is made. However it's not as small as most 3/0's. If I can figure out how to post a picture maybe I'll ask you guys opinions about how the eye looks in the jig.

Thanks for all the responses. Glad I found this forum and you guys have been really helpful!

Thank you for everything

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Ben, 

If you only heat and bend one part, and then it is encased in the lead part of the jig, will it still be too weak?

 

I'm not sure Mark. How hard the lead is would probably make a difference, but my thinking about bending hooks is pretty much the same as Smalljaws. It may work fine for a while, but sooner or later the bond between the hook and the lead is going to start giving way and any help the lead was giving the hook is going to be compromised. I can understand someone wanting to modify baits, hooks, molds, etc. to fit a specific want or need. That is what we do after all. And I have heated and bent hooks before. First ones worked great, but when I tried to repeat the procedure they failed miserably.

 

One thing that makes heating and tempering hooks so difficult for the home builder is we don't have the means to precisely control the steps needed to do it. A single hook has so little mass that it loses heat very quickly the instant you remove it from the heat source. Even the distance you have your quenching liquid from your heat source can make a difference when the heat loss is occurring so rapidly. Like Smalljaw said you might get some that work fine and then there will be those that fail with the least amount of force applied to them.

 

To take a chance, no matter how small, of losing the fish of a lifetime it's just not worth it to me.

 

Ben

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In the early eighties I was making jigs for this particular customer who wanted a specific set-up. I would take a Daichi wide gap fly hook, heat it and put a 90 degree bent in it to form an eye leg. Then I would mold them into a little 1/4 oz. Arky head. I must have made over 500 of those things without a single failure. Maybe I got lucky and maybe not. The customer was a tournament fisherman and used to give me regular feedback on all my products. Back then we just did stuff. 

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I have been bending both heavy and light wire (Not Forged) jig hooks, near the eye to fit in to molds for several years and with thousands made I have not had one failure. I also use a stronger lead mixture with a higher percentage of tin, to ensure the bent area is encased in a strong head. It is impossible for these jig heads to fail at the part I bent, rather then the actual hook area.

 

I have only bent a few forged hooks and have had no failures, so I can not give a definitive answer on the success of bending forged hooks, but I would suspect if the bent area is encased in a very solid head, the actual "hook bend" would fail before the part enclosed in the lead.

 

 

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Here's the way I look at it. If it were as simple as heating hooks in a flame, bending them to the desired shape and then quenching them in oil or water then why are hook manufacturers spending a ton of money developing a process to heat treat their hooks? A quality hook has to be hard enough to hold a sharp point, but be flexible enough that it doesn't break. Hooks are shaped before the tempering process begins. It's done this way because the hooks are still malleable before tempering. Once the hooks are shaped THEN the tempering process is begun.

 

If you think this process is much ado about nothing then try heating your favorite fillet knife cherry red and quenching it in oil or water. I can pretty much promise you that you won't like the results.

 

Ben

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I've bent many hooks after heating without a single failure to date... Even forged hooks. The usual need arises when needing to make a 90 into a 60, a 60 into a 30 and so on. I mearly use a lighter and count as I heat. A torch would be faster but I haven't seen the need. The hook is not cherry red when bent, it doesn't even change color. All hooks are heated when making jigs by the lead that is poured around them. Although the mold is a large heat sink, and the hook doesn't get as hot as mentioned here. Who here has never reused a hook after a bad pour by melting the partial pour off in the pot? I bet that hook got hot don't you?

You can bend them with pliers or a device like a little blue bender. If you don't get them hot enough they will break while bending. You must quickly bend after heating to avoid breakage while by the quick cooling and heat sink effect of whatever bending device you choose.

Once a hook is molded into lead the exposed part of the hook will be your weak link, not the covered portion. I've even used to separate peices of broken hook molded within a head before to test a design. The ends of the pieces were heated an given a small bend to keep them in place. While I don't recommend this for regular use because they will loosen it did work.

Do not use a quenching fluid after bending. This will harden the material and make it brittle and therefore easier to break.

While this site is very informative I think sometimes we look for perfection in things to a fault. Heat it, bend it, forget it. I bet the 0.016" plastic line fails before the 0.045" steel hook encased in lead does... And if the hook fails, it won't be where it was heated. It will fail at the exposed bend where the leverage can be applied, and fail while BEING bent.

Edited by CarverGLX
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I have taken several heavy duty 90 degree flippin hooks and bent them to fit in a 60 degree mold and vise versa.  I made sure the bend was in the main shaft below the angle to the eye and it is fully encased in lead when poured.  There is physically no way for the eye to pull from the hook at the bend point unless it can go around a corner.  Never had an issue and it has allowed me to use much heavier hooks, and also use wide gap hooks in a mold not made for that type hook.  I never used any type of heat and always just used needle nose pliers. 

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