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pope953

Top water walking bait wont float right, rolls over.

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Hi everyone, new member here.  I've looked around and searched the forums with no luck yet, so I figured I would make a post and say hi as well as ask a couple of questions. 

 

I've tried my hand at making a couple of lures before with little success unfortunately, but with this one I believe I am a little closer.  I've tried swimbaits, wake baits and my newest, which I feel should be a little simpler, is a top water walking bait.  The problem I am having is when I put it in the water it sits at about the position I want it, with the butt down slightly, but when I let it go it rolls on its side.  I've added more weight to the bottom to help pull it down and hopefully sit right, but it keeps rolling over.   I'm hoping that someone has some insight for me at what I need to do to help.  Also, I need to add that I took a chunk out of the back on the top, towards the rear and put in a ball bearing in a sleeve for a rattle.  It sounds phenomenal, but I wonder if that is part of the rolling over problem?  I've supplied photos (I hope I did it in the right manner) to show where I am at.  You can see the putty on the top where I put the sleeve. 

 

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Edited by pope953
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Simply you  don't have it balanced correctly.  Start drilling some small holes on the side to counterbalance it and start packing in the lead.   I tend to go more narrower towards the tail and like flat sides and rounded belly to keel tail.  Included some pictures trying to show the shape .   They pretty much won't roll.

I like to have the bait with the tail weighted more heavily and even do some of the balsa "sammies" that are quite far from horizontal.   I typically weight starting about 1/8 to 1/4 inch behind the belly hook hanger back to the tail.  Also pack the weight as low as you can get it. 

I would also recommend moving that belly hook up quite a bit.  It is sitting too far back  and where you need to be putting weight, in my opinion.  I should have some various baits in different progression somewhere and will see if it can get some better photos.   

It also is helpful to have the hooks and split rings on with this issue.  Frequently once you get close to the correct weighting the hooks/split rings will give enough weight to right the bait.

.  

 

 

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Edited by Travis
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Thank you for the feedback, I will try moving the hook hanger forward on my next one.  I am going to continue weighting this one to see if I can get it to float right and learn from this one.  If it helps at all on details, this lure is more of a Lunker Punker sized lure.  It's right around 6 inches long and about 1-1 1/4 inches in width.  Trying to make a bigger style walking bait, due to the size bait we have in some of the lakes in the area.

I have about 3-4 bodies made currently, they are all similar shape and size. 

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Try drawing a line from your nose line tie to your tail hook hanger, and keeping all the ballast, including the rattles, as far below that line as possible.  Also keep the ballast more toward the rear, like Travis said, so the balance point, if you lay the lure over a pencil, is about two thirds of the way back from the nose.

You want the lure to sit in the water at rest with just the front third of the bait up out of the water, but still almost level.

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Walking baits only require a bit of lead on the rear end of the bait I cup the nose slightly like a popper.

Use cedar or bass wood

1- drill all mounting holes , eye sockets . Lead weight should be in the bait during lathe turning

2- seal the wood

3-Mount hooks and check the attitude of the bait in water( head up ,tail, down slightly)

4- test in a lake w/out wind

5- Paint when they walk satisfactory

 

image.jpeg.272caf953323305931f9ea9f0e67073d.jpeg

Edited by smallmouthaholic
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Thank you for all the response so far.  Lot of great information.  I have very seriously considered getting a small wood lathe to get to size a little quicker.  Everything has all been hand sanded so far.  Cut out on a scroll saw to get the shape and then sanded by hand, so I'm sure its not perfectly symmetrical unfortunately.

 

I placed one more weight in it earlier and it gave it what it needed to lay on the belly, but it is terrible tail weighted and isn't sitting quite vertically but it doesn't lack much.  I may just  use this one as a prototype to learn with and keep tweaking on this one.  The next one I make will definitely use some of the techniques I have learned from you all.  Such good information and I'm glad I joined the site.

 

Travis, that picture helps a ton.  I have googled the Lunker Punker several times to look at the shape to try and help with the shape of my lure.  But I haven't seen that picture before, that is a great find as far as the weighting is concerned.  Thank you so much. 

Is there a way to post videos to the site?  Or can I upload one to YouTube and put it on here?

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I have heard one time, and I'm unsure if it is accurate or not, hopefully someone can tell me.  The more horizontal the lure sits the wider it will glide, and the more vertical the tighter the walk will be?

 

Also, not having to be perfectly symmetrical is a good thing!  I know it is highly unable to get it perfectly symmetrical by hand sanding so that's good knowing  it doesn't have to be because I was worried it needed to be. 

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Definitely going to try to consistency with the next one.  I would like it to glide more rather than walk I guess.  I took the one I have been working on to a pond this morning and it walks pretty well.  Takes a little effort to get it going but once you get it going it does well. With the next one I will definitely keep it more level in the water. 

 

Just for curiosity sake, would it be simpler to try and perfect one without a rattle and then move on to adding a rattle and then perfecting it?  Or is it best to just start and do it the way you want to do it?  This is all new to me, and I'm just trying to figure out the proper steps toward building one, if it's better to start easy and then progress, or start with what you want and roll with perfecting it?

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For me, getting a bait to work right, with the correct ballast amount and placement, is my first step.

Once I've figured out how much ballast and where, I can play around with rattles, weighing the rattles I want to use, and subtracting that from my overall ballast weight.  If my rattles weigh 1 gram, I pick a spot I want to install them, and subtract 1 gram from the closest ballast point.

It's not exact, but I'm just building for me and a buddy, so close counts.

Edited by mark poulson
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I've made 100's of these bait over the years. Building them to perform is not rocket science-UNLESS YOU MAKE IT.

1 tail weight only so they sit w/the head out of the water and the tail submerged 1/4-5/8 of an inch. The size and weights of the hooks,screw eyes and split rings can make a difference. Shape them like a tapered cigar on a lathe but 1st mark the center( of the squared wood @ the tail of the bait), then drill a hole for the worm weight to be inserted and glued in place-flush w/ the end of the wood.  Shape the plug on a lathe leaving only 1/8" of the worm weight showing Drill a centered hole through the worm weight,center of the bait and nose. Cut out your eye sockets w/ a fostner bit.

Then seal the wood by submerging in Marine spar varnish and thinner until all bubbles stop. 2-5 minutes. Hang to dry for 1-2 days. Assemble and set them to sit as mentioned above. File off a bit of the tail weight if they sit too deep.

Add all hardware and hooks- go to a quiet,glass like area of a lake or pond to test. Paint,apply 3-d eyes and epoxy topcoat

Bass wood or cedar is the recommended wood for buoyancy and action.

Worm weight guides-

5'' plugs-1/8 oz.

4"   1/16 oz

3-3 1/2"  1/32oz.

 

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Thank you for the info smallmouthaholic.  I may have to look into getting a small wood lathe at some point if I continue to do that.  It is a fun hobby that I enjoy, and I'm sure the satisfactory of catching a fish on a lure you make is unreal!  

Where is the best place to get wood blanks?  I have just been using scrap wood that I get at work.  I'm not even sure what type of wood that it is.  I want to say it's pine but I'm not sure.  

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12 hours ago, mark poulson said:

For me, getting a bait to work right, with the correct ballast amount and placement, is my first step.

Once I've figured out how much ballast and where, I can play around with rattles, weighing the rattles I want to use, and subtracting that from my overall ballast weight.  If my rattles weigh 1 gram, I pick a spot I want to install them, and subtract 1 gram from the closest ballast point.

It's not exact, but I'm just building for me and a buddy, so close counts.

 

Great info Mark, thank you.  I am curious, as I have no real way of knowing my exact weight when I put it in the lure.  I just have a lead melting pot and some lead.  I take my dremel tool and make a place and pour the lead in.  How is a better way to measure out, and be more accurate with my weight?  

 

Also, are there any good scales that I could buy that would help me with measuring everything out?

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You don't need a scale. Use worm weights as I mentioned above.

 

Look her for lure kits-       http://www.saltwaterplugs.com/kitinstructionspage.htm

 

                                                             http://www.saltwaterplugs.com/cedar balusters.htm

 

                         https://www.google.com/search?q=salty's+fresh+water+lure+kits&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

Edited by smallmouthaholic
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7 hours ago, pope953 said:

 

Great info Mark, thank you.  I am curious, as I have no real way of knowing my exact weight when I put it in the lure.  I just have a lead melting pot and some lead.  I take my dremel tool and make a place and pour the lead in.  How is a better way to measure out, and be more accurate with my weight?  

 

Also, are there any good scales that I could buy that would help me with measuring everything out?

 

Add your hook hangers, split rings, and hooks.

Then float your lure in a bucket of water, and add ballast, either egg sinkers or split shot, or a combination of the two, until you get the lure to float the way you want.

Then weigh the ballast, noting how much went where, and put that weight of ballast back into the lure in as close as possible to the same locations.  Since you melt your lead and pour it into the lure,  you can just melt the sinkers/split shots.  

Having a digital scale that weighs in tenths of a gram is very helpful.  I found one online, and it was cheap.  That way, you can be sure you're matching the test ballast weight, in case you don't want to melt down your test sinkers.  I use 3/16" and 1/4" lead wire, push into drilled holes and set with super glue, instead of melting my ballast lead.

Be sure that you keep your ballast holes in enough lure material that the holes won't make the lure too weak.  I have found that adding ballast 2/3+- of the way back toward the tail is good, generally, since it keeps the tail down a little, and also helps with casting.

And don't be afraid to add too much.  Ballast location can change how much weight you need.  If your lure sits too low, just drill some lead out with a bit that's smaller than your ballast hole.  That's how I fine tune my lures.

Everything I've learned about lure making I learned here on TU, from people like  smallmouthaholic who were willing to share how they did things.

Let us know how you do.

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I'm just shaking my head how the in-experienced  post their"rocket scientist" info on this thread.

Pouring hot lead into a wooden lure cavity-Ridiculous ,DANGEROUS and completely UN-necessary

Fact- the more weight you put along the length of the wooden bait the deeper in the water it sits reducing buoyancy

Fact-You don't need rattles in a wooden bait. Why- you'll never hear them once the lure is sealed,primed ,painted and epoxy coated plus- you'll end up destroying the wooden bait trying to make useless rattle chambers

Fact- a scale is a waste of money as the density of wood varies.

Cup the nose slightly on a down ward angle to simulate a small popper nose.Now the bait,splits,bubbles and walks @ the same time.

 

I'm done- good luck w/ your project

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