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Guest DiyEngineer

Gelatin Bio Plastic??

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Guest DiyEngineer

Is any one know things in bio plastic, i have some questions on a easy to make recipe i saw on another forum. I want to know how to make a gelatin based plastic non-soluble in water without the use of gelatinizing oil, I am asking because gelatin is not a true plastic, but rather an organic compound that rearranges a liquid that it is dissolved in, but certain chemicals can prevent it from bonding and forming a gel. If anyone can give some chemicals to harden it, make it insoluble, or make it into a true plastic can you please send some info? Thank for any help :) .

Heres the site http://green-plastics.net/posts/84/qaa-can-i-make-bioplastic-fishing-lures/

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Ive worked with soluble plastic for a customer, I think is has to be soluble to be biodegradable the two go hand in hand.  But there soluble plastic is not bio degradable, I have also worked with 100% biodegradable plastic, water based, But the cost of manufacturing the end product is 3 fold, and the storage, Ie like berkley is expensive. I think most anything you come up with will require some sort of glycerin involved.

 

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Guest DiyEngineer

Thank you for the help, I appreciate both of your comments. Also I want to ask if the recipe will last after one cast, Also baitjunkys, biodegradble is not only soluble, but also to decompose bacterially, oxidize, or break down after the composition has aged due too a certain unstabability, (thank you for your comment) and your are right about it being expensive when working with true bioplastics, but the recipe I was using was not a true bioplastic but rather a gelatinous compund that uses glycerol (like you said) that still dissolves in water, thank you both for the comments.:)

Edited by DiyEngineer
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If you leave such kind of soft bait at room temperature, it will begin stiff as a chewing gum, so hook can be placed and a lot of casts can be made. To maintain the rest of bait flexible the trick is to conserve it wrapped in a plastic film. Anyway this kind of compound is really degradable and in a month you can see traces of mold ... honestly I prefer PVC.

I personally had another experience with another bioplastic: corn starch. Our Supplier produced Party Plates with powder corn starch, obtaining a colored (in mass), biodegradable, Food Contact Material bioplastic, close to PS as feeling contact, but ...  it was hard, nor soft, nor flexible.

Bye.

 

Cami

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I agree with Cam's link to Bass Mousse.  I have tried that recipe and the green plastics one.  The Bass Mousse holds up better with the Arabic gum, I used Xanthan Gum.  Both recipes are highly water soluble which is good in the long run but bad for storage and durability while casting.  I found this video recently which shows dipping the lures in a glass of tannins.  I believe you can pick up tannins at home brew marts or DIY wine making shops.  I would love to have some kind of eco friendly plastisol to pour my own lures but haven't found anything yet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2qKkrlyftQ&t=4s

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Before getting into bait manufacturing we worked 20 years in the paintball industry. In the early 2000's RP Scherer tried using the corn starch based plastic/gelatin mixture. It worked well, but water would still break down the shell over time just as if they were using straight gelatin.  About 8 years ago there was a start up company called Hydrotech that actually developed a plastic that could be used with a full water based fill & not break down. It instead relied on bacteria to naturally break it down. The company lost investors & never made it off the ground but I do know one of the guys that was there during the development. I may have to send him a message & see if he would share what type of plastic they were using.

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Hello, 

Totally newbie to the TU. I don't know why I haven't viewed this site before. Anyways, @hpssports , curious if you were able to get any information from your Hydrotech buddy?    

Also, to everyone, any tips on how to keep gelatin based lures sealed stored with out using plastic bags or plastic containers? Tying to be plastic free , but am OK using plastic if it can be used over and over again.

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westy661, what about submerging them in a glass jar of olive oil? Like preserving food and shouldn't dissolve the bait. I wonder if it would keep the bait supple over months and protect it from dissolving  in the water over the first several casts. Could even scent the oil.

I also have the goal of fishing plastic free. I saw your recipe on the bass mousse thread and am interested if you have any updates.

(First post on TU.)

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I have tried a recipe that works great and doesn't dissolve straight away, I used gelatin and glycerin in a 1:1 ratio (heated in a pan until gelatin has dissolved) to cast the lures then after letting them setup in the freezer for an hour I sit them in a solution of 1tsp tannin to 1 cup water this stops the lure dissolving so quickly this mixture gives a firm yet flexible lure hopefully this is what your all looking for also at molten stage you can add liquid food colouring/flavours

I have another recipe I'm trying out that could be even better and uses really cheap and easy to get ingredients glycerin/gelatin/water/honey (2:2:1:1)

Edited by Luke Dorrington
Missed out some information
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NewBait - this is a very interesting idea.

I Googled Sorbitol and found that it was basically an alcohol substance. I cannot get gelatin here in Indonesia because it is an animal product that goes against religious rules (haram). Even the international supermarkets no longer carry gelatin.

I do however have plenty of 75% alcohol to play with. I might give this a try with the locally available 'agar agar' and see what effect it has.

Thanks for the idea.

Dave

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12 minutes ago, Vodkaman said:

NewBait - this is a very interesting idea.

I Googled Sorbitol and found that it was basically an alcohol substance. I cannot get gelatin here in Indonesia because it is an animal product that goes against religious rules (haram). Even the international supermarkets no longer carry gelatin.

I do however have plenty of 75% alcohol to play with. I might give this a try with the locally available 'agar agar' and see what effect it has.

Thanks for the idea.

Dave

Agar agar can be directly substituted  for gelatin at the same ratio.

I think I shared this patent in the past on the biodegradable threads but could be wrong.

https://patents.google.com/patent/US6753004B2/en

 

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Travis - Good information.

I have experimented with agar-agar in the past, with and without glycerine. I found that it tears much easier than gelatin which is bad enough.

Of course, the main problem with these ingredients is that you will not be making 50 baits per hour unless you have 50 molds. It takes time for the baits to cool and solidify. But not having Plastisol available, I am excited to explore this possibility.

I intend to also experiment with the addition of some tapioca powder which might also improve the tear factor.

The beauty of these materials (not tapioca) is that they can be remelted, so a batch can be made and used over several sessions.

Dave

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