Glide Bait Design

[RiverSmallieGuy]

15 minutes ago, Hillbilly voodoo said:

Action is definitely impacted do to the different weight of the material. Just like working with different woods like balsa vs heavy hardwood 

This can be a long back and forth conversation that will be side tracking the thread. If the OP wants more information regarding more complexed resin pouring I will get into it. If anyone else wants to get into it it would be best in a new thread 

 

Yep. Buoyancy and strength.

[Hillbilly voodoo]

Never mind 

[walkercope]

On 4/17/2022 at 6:43 PM, Hillbilly voodoo said:

All my resin baits are weighed with pure resin and at times lead bird shot. I will also use different % of micro balloons in different layers to achieve different things. I also will pour a layer let it mostly set and add lead shot if I want my weight suspended above the belly. My masters are carved taking this into consideration. My molds are also made so resin pours and settles where I want it

my hardware is poured into the bait

Most people look at resin baits as a way to replicate a wooden/or plastic lure and so did I when I first started using resin. I then started to realize you can accomplish a variety of things by layering, using different mixes of resin/micro balloons, or suspending lead 

Sure you can build harnesses that hold your weight and pour a mix similar to wood in buoyancy effectively but there is lots of options 

PS remember you will always have a portion of resin settle to the bottom creating a heavier section when pouring any mix of micro balloons and resin 

Really appreciate the response.  Can you go into any detail about how you hold the harness in position inside the mold while you pour the resin?

[Big Epp]

I would love to learn more about resin and pouring and stuff. I just started another thread to move that conversation off this one. Great stuff!

[RiverSmallieGuy]

1 minute ago, Big Epp said:

I would love to learn more about resin and pouring and stuff. I just started another thread to move that conversation off this one. Great stuff!

That's a smart idea. This topic would get wayyy off topic if we went down that rabbit hole haha

[Hillbilly voodoo]

6 hours ago, walkercope said:

Really appreciate the response.  Can you go into any detail about how you hold the harness in position inside the mold while you pour the resin?

As long as you have the hook hangers and tie point in the master well making the mold it is easy. Just put the harness in and clamp your mold. Really no need for a full harness if you are pouring your hardware into the lure. I use 1 1/2 inch eye screws in my pike lures and no issues pulling out or turning. I have also used twisted wire with two eyes so the resin basically creates a peg through the end inside the body. I have suspended rattle chambers using 4lb mono fishing line even 

when you pour things into the bait they are encapsulated in resin and hold extremely well. Resin baits are also tougher then wood so odds of tear out is much lower 

[RideHPD]

I figured pictures would make this way simpler. Apologies for the trash quality, I didn't have pics on-hand so I had to rip them from messages I sent to a buddy early on in the process development.

This was the first iteration with the wire locating post included as positive mold features, and also the very first casting I did out of a printed mold.

Next iteration switched to dowel pins for better wire retention, as well as the printed wire jig to complement that design.

And a few of the directly printed test lures themselves. Simple bores are recesses for 2mm dowel pins, larger recesses are to indicate and retain weights.

If there's anything specifically you'd like to see I can take those this weekend.

[aulrich]

That looks very interesting, I was thinking that you could print a kick ass wiring jigs.

How is it getting the bodies out, I would have thought the layer lines would hold on to the casting. 

 

Edited April 22, 2022 by aulrich

[RideHPD]

It's actually way easier to demold than with an aluminum mold. That's one of the beauties of using FDM thermoplastics for this, as they have such low surface energy that you might not even need a release agent. I've had Al molds for composites parts with 30deg of draft that were still a nightmare to demold; interface chemistry can play a really big role in demold/lift off success in your tooling design.

I actually had to reduce my nominal mold release schedule for the PLA molds as it was creating defects, which you can see in that picture of the red and clear lure as the curved, recessed band around the glare coming off the lure. That's a pretty common indicator of excessive release agent across all mold materials, though I haven't really had the time to determine what exactly causes the defect to manifest that way, either from coalescing release agent, a void that's stabilized and flattened by the agent, or just really highly phobic surface to the resin that won't let it wet there. Alas, it's easy to solve, just use less release, so no need for a root cause analysis, there are way too many other things to do first.

Wipe the mold with IPA, allow to dry ~15-30 min, lightly mist (if using PU) Stoner E236 or comparable with one pass, allow to sit for ~15 min and wipe off excess with clean, dry lint-free paper towel. Demold should be a piece of cake and surface quality should be top notch if you know what you're doing.

 

[Flaswimbaiter]

Being new to lure making  I agree with what some of the guys are saying that maybe you should start with something more simple like a top water, a twitch bait, multi joined bait or a wake. My first glide was like my fifth or sixth lure and it still didn’t work.  If you can make one from resin that would be your best bet because you can experiment like crazy on it and just throw it away if it doesn’t work and pour another one. 

[aulrich]

@RideHPD if you don't mind what sort of print setting do you run for molds. Specifically infill 

%,  Layer height is always the balance of need for detail and patience

[aulrich]

One more question are those specialty pins or just plain bar stock that you ground the nose on?

[RideHPD]

Sure thing, always happy to share that kind of info. On top of what I mentioned previously: 0.2mm initial and 0.08mm layer height elsewhere to maintain the 0.04mm incrementation for my machine, nothing significant for infill, 10-20% cubic so that all the reinforcement is orthogonal to the build plate and will provide structural support during clamping. I haven't played with line multipliers, etc. yet. That said I'm still tuning it, I randomly started experiencing some first layer issues out of nowhere last go around that I need to identify and solve, as well as a slight bowing of the top surface, so there's some residual thermal stresses to iron out, either through infill design or print settings. If there are any other specific settings you're curious of LMK and I'll pull them off the slicer.

As it is I'm looking at about 21 hrs per half based on my speed settings, hence the investment into an SLA machine, but overall it's worth the time to not have to perform any post-processing on the mold, and I can do other things in the mean time.

Pins came straight from McMaster: https://www.mcmaster.com/dowel-pins/dowel-pins-7/

[aulrich]

I was mostly just wondering about infill , I was not sure if you would need to increase infill for heat resistance.  10 -20% should keep things reasonably flat (ish).

My bed has a bit of a dip in the center it even telegraphs through the mirror I use as a build plate. I have a BL touch upgrade pending that should help with build surface irregularities. 

A resin printer is in my future too jut don't know when. 

 

 

[RideHPD]

Oh no, I ran a thermocouple on it during one of the cure cycles and it didn't get anywhere near the Tg. If your thickest section is under an inch thick it probably shouldn't change much.

I have the same, my glass bed actually has a pretty ridiculous amount of concavity to it, though these issues are extrusion related, I'm not sure what the exact root cause is but I have some suspects to interrogate.