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UKandy

Vortices, what's going on?

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Hi guys, not posted for a while I've been doing some more lure testing out on the water.

I've been working on a 7" one piece jerk/glide bait for some time now & have tried quite a few different things out throughout my testing stages, as I am using a resin/foam mix for the body (bottom half resin, top half foam) I have been messing around with all sorts of different mixes to achieve the buoyancy I thought I needed.

My first batch of test lures produced one lure that stood out from the rest, it had a really nice side to side swimming action on a steady retrieve & if paused upon the retrieve would glide maybe just over a foot in either direction, nothing hugely amazing but it worked well, the problem I had with this lure was it suffered from some belly roll, which became more obvious as it got closer to the rod tip.

This particular lure that worked well from the first test batch had 2 ballast placements, one was slightly infront of the centre of balance & one was slightly behind the centre of ballance (this ballast was basically as far back as needed to have the lure sink in a horizontal manner) the ballast holes were quite deep and near to the centre line of the lure, which I believed could be contributing to the belly roll I was seeing whilst retrieving the lures.

With that said I went back to the drawing board with the intention to correct the belly roll on the lures & maybe get a slightly greater glide. My thoughts were to use a heavier resin on the bottom half of the lures, this should mean that I would need less ballast which would allow me to keep the centre of gravity even lower down within the body, which hopefully would cure the belly roll problem.

After making the second batch of lure bodies with the heavier resin, I still felt that the ballast holes would be too deep & close to the centre line of the lure, so I opted to split the ballast so there were 2 ballast placements next to eachother just infront of the centre of balance & 2 placements next to eachother behind the centre of balance, this allowed for much shallower holes and kept the centre of gravity on the lure very low down.

Next was to get out & test the new batch of lures on the water, I found that on a steady retrieve the lures had lost nearly all of the nice side to side swimming action that the first batch of lures had produced & they pretty much had no glide action at all on a pause of the reel, whilst I was stood there thinking what exactly was going on, I happened to give the reel handle a really quick half jerk turn, which caused the lure to glide off in one direction about 4feet, surprised by this I reproduced the glide in the other direction with another swift jerk of the reel handle, I was baffled, these lures had lost nearly all action on any type of retrieve apart from a really quick jerk on the reel handle, I also noted that when the lures got closer to the rod tip the action would fade and the lures basically became a torpedo & still produced a slight belly roll.

This has got me rather confused as to what has made such a difference and why the lures would now be acting in this way, I would assume that the vortices would be acting exactly the same on each batch of lures produced, so I'm guessing the slight adjustment in ballast placement has thrown things off, I'm also wondering if using less foam for the top half of the lures would actually help with stability.

If the second batch of lures had kept the nice side to side swimming action on a steady retrieve & then I had been able to produce the 4foot glide with a quick jerk of the reel handle, I feel I would have been on to a real winner, unfortunately I've come to the point were it seems it's either one action or another.

Can any of you more experienced guys please give me any direction of what I can try next to have the lure produce the swimming action & glide action within the same lure, some shop bought ones I have do both, as you would expect, so maybe I'm down to fine line adjustments now.

Two last points I would like to make is that the belly hook on the lures has always been placed directly under the centre of balance, I have not yet tried putting one point of ballast exactly on the centre of balance of the lure & moving the hook placement, not sure if that would help or make a big difference in action, but thought it was worth mentioning, the second point is that the lures are near to critically balanced with an ultra slow sink rate, if I remove the hooks they would float, so could it actually be a point were I'm not using enough ballast to gain a better action in whole (more driving force weight).

Cheers guys, as always your help is massively appreciated :yay:

Andy.

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4 hours ago, ravenlures said:

Just wondering why half/half and not the whole lure mix resin/micro balloon's which I think will give you overall control of lure weight and then add weights where needed. Not much of a swim bait lure maker but I make musky baits for casting and trolling.

Wayne

Hi Wayne, after a couple of conversations on here, I was advised that a pure resin/micro balloon mix would never get the same kind of desired action as from a wooden lure, but if a certain type of foam pour was used it would give a much livelier action nearer to that of a wooden lure, it was my decision to go down the middle and give a resin/foam mix a try  :D don't get me wrong a couple of people on here also pointed out that they thought it wasn't worth the hassle, I was and still are only starting out on my lure journey so I gave it a whurl :yay: right or wrong Im trying!

Andy.

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Firstly, great work with your experimenting. There is so much information here, it is going to take several reads to soak it all up.

The 'closer to rod tip' thing makes sense. You are dealing with an action that moves side-to-side, so as the lure comes closer, the offset angle from the centerline increases.

Resin-MB mixes are literally just creating a pure wood alternative. The problem is that the wood alternative that you are creating is very dense, probably around 0.75g/cm³. The lightest material I was able to make with resin-MBs was 0.64g/cm³. So, if you can make a glider with heavy woods then you can make the same glider with resin-MBs. You will have to ask glider experts about that.

That is all I have for now, but will likely return with more confusion :)

Dave

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10 minutes ago, Vodkaman said:

Firstly, great work with your experimenting. There is so much information here, it is going to take several reads to soak it all up.

The 'closer to rod tip' thing makes sense. You are dealing with an action that moves side-to-side, so as the lure comes closer, the offset angle from the centerline increases.

Resin-MB mixes are literally just creating a pure wood alternative. The problem is that the wood alternative that you are creating is very dense, probably around 0.75g/cm³. The lightest material I was able to make with resin-MBs was 0.64g/cm³. So, if you can make a glider with heavy woods then you can make the same glider with resin-MBs. You will have to ask glider experts about that.

That is all I have for now, but will likely return with more confusion :)

Dave

Hi Dave great to hear from you, your input is always received with gratitude, so I will look forward to hearing more from you :yay: 

I tried to give as much information as possible so people can understand my dilemma, I know there are so many factors that can change a lures action, therefore I thought I'd ask for a little help.

Andy.

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Another note I have just made regarding the test lures:

I've been holding one upside down in the palm of my hand and it's very apparent that the lures are wanting to roll over quite aggressively at the slightest amount of tilt, the width of the lure bodies are 18mm and the diameter of the ballast holes are 10mm, I'm not sure if the ballast holes diameter ratio too body width are causing some of the roll problem on retrieve, maybe narrowing the diameter of the holes on another test lure too see?

Just thinking out loud, I could be going down the wrong rabbit hole here :Dinterested to know what you guys think & if it would make any difference :yay:

Cheers Andy.

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