Mold Making-- Help!

[Hillbilly voodoo]

Welcome to TU where you can be bombarded with both simple and complicated answers to any lure making question 

We might confuse the crap out of you at times but you will learn a lot along the way including a solution to your lure making problem 98% of the time 

 

[JD_mudbug]

I think you could make a POP crankbait float with microspheres. I can't remember for sure but I think hardened POP will float on its own until it softens and dissolves.

Dave is right it can be used for both casting and molds. I just don't think it would hold up as a casting of a lure body. The impacts on casts and fish strikes would cause POP to crack. Any water penetration would doom a POP lure.

POP makes great castings to replicate detailed plaster work for building interiors. But those castings just sit on walls and ceilings and aren't taking any abuse.

[RiverSmallieGuy]

21 minutes ago, JD_mudbug said:

I think you could make a POP crankbait float with microspheres. I can't remember for sure but I think hardened POP will float on its own until it softens and dissolves.

Dave is right it can be used for both casting and molds. I just don't think it would hold up as a casting of a lure body. The impacts on casts and fish strikes would cause POP to crack. Any water penetration would doom a POP lure.

POP makes great castings to replicate detailed plaster work for building interiors. But those castings just sit on walls and ceilings and aren't taking any abuse.

Ohhhhhh... That is a weak point of POP then. You need to seal it or it will dissolve and break. That is a huge advantage to using resin is that you don't need to seal it and that the lure wont get ruined by water entry. That's a great thing to know.

[RiverSmallieGuy]

And to Hillbilly voodoo, you are a funny dude haha. I guess that is the pickle you get into when you make lures, there is no right answer, everything is a compromise, and everything is relative and opinion based. Emphasis on the 98% success rate... Hope you get into the ice-out period soon. Here in Kansas City the bass are shallow and chewing shad and bluegills, caught like 9 from shore at a pressured lake in like 2 hours on a small swimbait. Fun times!

Edited March 21, 2022 by RiverSmallieGuy

[RiverSmallieGuy]

And to help with any thoughts on my trout swimbait issue, here is a picture of the sketch I have. I know there are no scales in the sketch, but there will be when it is carved.

 

Edited March 21, 2022 by RiverSmallieGuy

[JD_mudbug]

If you go through the trouble of making a master and a mold, you might as well use a casting resin that is waterproof. The Smooth On and Alumalite products are better suited for lure bodies. All clear coats can fail. You never know when a rock or bridge support will jump out in front of your lure.

We went from 15" inches of ice to 'my ATV is at the bottom of the lake' in a few days. A 55 degree day, followed by a 70 degree day, followed by a 50 degree day with rain wiped out nearly a foot of ice. There are a couple of rivers I can fish but they are hazardous right now. The water is high and the current is swift due to the snow melting. As the water rises, it picks up trees and sticks from shore. Lots of floating logs to dodge.

[RiverSmallieGuy]

2 minutes ago, JD_mudbug said:

If you go through the trouble of making a master and a mold, you might as well use a casting resin that is waterproof. The Smooth On and Alumalite products are better suited for lure bodies. All clear coats can fail. You never know when a rock or bridge support will jump out in front of your lure.

We went from 15" inches of ice to 'my ATV is at the bottom of the lake' in a few days. A 55 degree day, followed by a 70 degree day, followed by a 50 degree day with rain wiped out nearly a foot of ice. There are a couple of rivers I can fish but they are hazardous right now. The water is high and the current is swift due to the snow melting. As the water rises, it picks up trees and sticks from shore. Lots of floating logs to dodge.

I agree about the casting resin. Did you really lose an ATV? If so, I am so sorry man... That sucks. I was fishing earlier today and walked past a dude who was trying a new expensive ultra light rod and casted his $2 spinner into a tree and he broke his rod trying to get the bait out. I felt bad for him, but that's why you don't repeatedly swing your rod over your head as hard as you can to get your bait out...

[JD_mudbug]

No, it was a joke. I drilled a test hole 10 feet from shore in 3 feet of water and quickly realized I should not be on the ice. 

Next time if you see someone doing that with their rod, tell them to let out extra line, wrap the line around a stick and do the pull thing. Don't risk breaking the rod.

I walk the ice with a telescopic 12' pole and retrieve lures from trees. If the lures are too high, I tie paracord to a 1' long 1.5" diameter stick with a rag on it. I throw the stick over the branch, get the lure snagged on the rag or stick, and pull it down with the paracord. Over the past decade, I have found several hundred lures.  I do it from my boat too. The lures are easier to spot in winter with no leaves on the trees.

[RiverSmallieGuy]

1 minute ago, JD_mudbug said:

No, it was a joke. I drilled a test hole 10 feet from shore in 3 feet of water and quickly realized I should not be on the ice. 

Next time if you see someone doing that with their rod, tell them to let out extra line, wrap the line around a stick and do the pull thing. Don't risk breaking the rod.

I walk the ice with a telescopic 12' pole and retrieve lures from trees. If the lures are too high, I tie paracord to a 1' long 1.5" diameter stick with a rag on it. I throw the stick over the branch, get the lure snagged on the rag or stick, and pull it down with the paracord. Over the past decade, I have found several hundred lures.  I do it from my boat too. The lures are easier to spot in winter with no leaves on the trees.

Haha... Yeah you sometimes don't know it until you drill it.. 

 

Yep, He broke the rod after I walked past him. He was walking back to his truck and I saw him with his broken rod... 

 

Thats actually really smart. Great advice!

[RiverSmallieGuy]

Is POP a pourable material to make molds with, or is it like a spackle putty?

[Bentrod425]

POP is pourable.   You can actually adjust the viscosity to your liking.  

[RiverSmallieGuy]

7 minutes ago, Bentrod425 said:

POP is pourable.   You can actually adjust the viscosity to your liking.  

Wow... POP is sounding very good for simple crankbaits and lipless baits, but it isn't flexible like silicone so I can't do super detailed lures with it. Is it suitable for pouring soft baits?

Edited March 21, 2022 by RiverSmallieGuy

[Bentrod425]

2 minutes ago, RiverSmallieGuy said:

Wow... POP is sounding very good for simple crankbaits and lipless baits. Is it suitable for pouring soft baits?

As a mold material?  People use POP for making soft bait molds...I'm sure there are YouTube tutorials on it.  Warning, there will be some trial and error on getting the stuff to behave the way you want (mold forms, viscosity, bubbles, etc), but the plus side is that it's super cheap.  It's not suited for super complex baits, but can be useful when just starting out to get a feel for things.  

 

[RiverSmallieGuy]

1 minute ago, Bentrod425 said:

As a mold material?  People use POP for making soft bait molds...I'm sure there are YouTube tutorials on it.  Warning, there will be some trial and error on getting the stuff to behave the way you want (mold forms, viscosity, bubbles, etc), but the plus side is that it's super cheap.  It's not suited for super complex baits, but can be useful when just starting out to get a feel for things.  

 

Would POP stick to itself if you try to use it to cast lures in a POP mold? (I am asking to see if you need to use a ton of mold release on it) I would guess that you need to use mold release if you use Alumilite RC3 casting resin or something similar.

[Bentrod425]

2 minutes ago, RiverSmallieGuy said:

Would POP stick to itself if you try to use it to cast lures in a POP mold? (I am asking to see if you need to use a ton of mold release on it) I would guess that you need to use mold release if you use Alumilite RC3 casting resin or something similar.

Yes.  Maybe not fully, but enough.  When making a two part mold, I will make one side, then coat the face with Vaseline before pouring the second part.  This will help with separation of the two halves.  If pouring epoxy or casting resin you'll want some sort of coating/mold release between pours. Those who do soft bait molds from POP also will coat the mold with epoxy or something to help with release/smooth surfaces.  

 

[RiverSmallieGuy]

1 minute ago, Bentrod425 said:

Yes.  Maybe not fully, but enough.  When making a two part mold, I will make one side, then coat the face with Vaseline before pouring the second part.  This will help with separation of the two halves.  If pouring epoxy or casting resin you'll want some sort of coating/mold release between pours. Those who do soft bait molds from POP also will coat the mold with epoxy or something to help with release/smooth surfaces.  

 

Alright. That helps. I feel that the POP molds would be suitable for simple lures. Thanks for all of the help guys! As a thank you, after I make some molds (which may be in a while) I can try to get ya'll some resin baits from me. Thanks guys!

[Bentrod425]

9 minutes ago, RiverSmallieGuy said:

Would POP stick to itself if you try to use it to cast lures in a POP mold? (I am asking to see if you need to use a ton of mold release on it) I would guess that you need to use mold release if you use Alumilite RC3 casting resin or something similar.

Reading this again, if you're asking about MAKING a lure out of POP, not recommended.  Heavy and brittle.  

 

[RiverSmallieGuy]

25 minutes ago, Bentrod425 said:

Reading this again, if you're asking about MAKING a lure out of POP, not recommended.  Heavy and brittle.  

 

I don't plan to make lures out of POP. I plan to build molds with the material. Thank you for asking for clarification.

[wchilton]

If you want to use Plaster Of Paris, I'd suggest you look for  a plaster supply store.  You might even be able to find it at Home Depot or other hardware store.  It's a lot cheaper when bought in 50lb bag.  Small packages off the shelf from walmart or art stores are not the best deal.  You CAN use 100% silicone caulk/sealant.  Just squeeze it out of the tube and mix in a small amount of water (few drops for each cup of sealant).  The water acts as a catalyst and makes the silicone cure pretty fast (few minutes).  You want the silicone that has the strong vinegar smell.  If you don't mix in water it will take a long time to cure thicker areas (will cure on surface first).  Silicone sealant is pretty thick stuff for making a mold.  It's really intended as an adhesive/sealant.  You'd want to test it to make sure your mold release works.

[RiverSmallieGuy]

4 hours ago, wchilton said:

If you want to use Plaster Of Paris, I'd suggest you look for  a plaster supply store.  You might even be able to find it at Home Depot or other hardware store.  It's a lot cheaper when bought in 50lb bag.  Small packages off the shelf from walmart or art stores are not the best deal.  You CAN use 100% silicone caulk/sealant.  Just squeeze it out of the tube and mix in a small amount of water (few drops for each cup of sealant).  The water acts as a catalyst and makes the silicone cure pretty fast (few minutes).  You want the silicone that has the strong vinegar smell.  If you don't mix in water it will take a long time to cure thicker areas (will cure on surface first).  Silicone sealant is pretty thick stuff for making a mold.  It's really intended as an adhesive/sealant.  You'd want to test it to make sure your mold release works.

Is the silicone caulk/sealant flexible like Smooth On or is it hard like Plaster of Paris?

[Bentrod425]

Silicon caulk will usually be smooth.  This CAN be good for what you're looking to do with a few caveats. There is usually a big trial and error with phase with the silicone caulk/mix that is messy and the price adds up fast.  Those fumes are nothing to mess with either, so do it in a well ventilated area and/or use a respirator.  You need the 100% silicon caulk as previously stated.  There are many ways to mix it.  Adding some cornstarch or soap/water will allow it to harden throughout.  It will be somewhat flexible, but it is pretty stiff compared to the two part silicon made for molds.  I tried to thin it once to make it pourable.  It worked, BUT the thinner then evaporated out over time and my mold shrunk considerably, so that is not a great option...and it off gassed for a long time.  

My most recent success was not thinning.  I  just added a few drops of food coloring and a bunch of cornstarch until I got a playdough/clay like substance.  I then pushed my master into that along with some filler and vent placeholders.  Let it set up and then did the same for the second half.  The detail was very good.  It would have made a good mold for soft plastics of resin lures, but my intention was for a lead jig mold.  Unfortunately the cornstarch burned when pouring the lead and the result was pretty much worthless. 

[RiverSmallieGuy]

7 minutes ago, Bentrod425 said:

Silicon caulk will usually be smooth.  This CAN be good for what you're looking to do with a few caveats. There is usually a big trial and error with phase with the silicone caulk/mix that is messy and the price adds up fast.  Those fumes are nothing to mess with either, so do it in a well ventilated area and/or use a respirator.  You need the 100% silicon caulk as previously stated.  There are many ways to mix it.  Adding some cornstarch or soap/water will allow it to harden throughout.  It will be somewhat flexible, but it is pretty stiff compared to the two part silicon made for molds.  I tried to thin it once to make it pourable.  It worked, BUT the thinner then evaporated out over time and my mold shrunk considerably, so that is not a great option...and it off gassed for a long time.  

My most recent success was not thinning.  I  just added a few drops of food coloring and a bunch of cornstarch until I got a playdough/clay like substance.  I then pushed my master into that along with some filler and vent placeholders.  Let it set up and then did the same for the second half.  The detail was very good.  It would have made a good mold for soft plastics of resin lures, but my intention was for a lead jig mold.  Unfortunately the cornstarch burned when pouring the lead and the result was pretty much worthless. 

So using the silicon caulk is not very user friendly. What I am getting from this is that I would be better off using POP or just biting the bullet and spending the money on SmoothOn or something like that.

[Bentrod425]

2 hours ago, RiverSmallieGuy said:

So using the silicon caulk is not very user friendly. What I am getting from this is that I would be better off using POP or just biting the bullet and spending the money on SmoothOn or something like that.

Unless you're a real DIY guy, then there will be less frustration with buying a two part silicone and following the directions.  The DIY silicone caulk Can be done successfully and has it's place, but you have to be wiling to invest some time and effort into figuring it out.  The POP really isn't any different, just cheaper and non-toxic.  You can get a tube of silicone at the hardware store for about $5.  It doesn't keep well after opening, so plan to use as much as you can.  You might be able to get a couple uses out of it if you only go a few days in between.  You'll need a caulk gun...guess you don't HAVE to have one.  Wear gloves and plan to fail the first try.  

 

[RiverSmallieGuy]

10 minutes ago, Bentrod425 said:

Unless you're a real DIY guy, then there will be less frustration with buying a two part silicone and following the directions.  The DIY silicone caulk Can be done successfully and has it's place, but you have to be wiling to invest some time and effort into figuring it out.  The POP really isn't any different, just cheaper and non-toxic.  You can get a tube of silicone at the hardware store for about $5.  It doesn't keep well after opening, so plan to use as much as you can.  You might be able to get a couple uses out of it if you only go a few days in between.  You'll need a caulk gun...guess you don't HAVE to have one.  Wear gloves and plan to fail the first try.  

 

Yeah. I feel like I would be better off going the POP route to learn the technique, as it is cheaper and easier and works for all lures. Based on what I have gathered, you need to be very conscious with the undercuts of your master if you plan to use a POP mold. I would probably waste more money trying to go the silicone caulk route just by trying to learn it. If the silicone caulk is more expensive, less user friendly, and more temperamental then the POP route would be better in almost every aspect.

[Bentrod425]

Just now, RiverSmallieGuy said:

Yeah. I feel like I would be better off going the POP route to learn the technique, as it is cheaper and easier and works for all lures. Based on what I have gathered, you need to be very conscious with the undercuts of your master if you plan to use a POP mold. I would probably waste more money trying to go the silicone caulk route just by trying to learn it. If the silicone caulk is more expensive, less user friendly, and more temperamental then the POP route would be better in almost every aspect.

Each have their advantages/disadvantages.  POP is rigid and brittle, so, yes, undercuts, complex rigid masters will be difficult to make molds from.  POP is cheap and easy to work with and quite a few YouTube tutorials out there.  Silicone is flexible and allows you to mold some of those undercuts, etc, but unless you buy the two-part stuff made for mold making, then it can be a bit of a pain to figure out.  Either way, it's about having fun and making your own stuff, so hope you get some good results!