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RiverSmallieGuy

D2T Durability?

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I am building some super-shallow running crankbaits out of cedar for the ponds that I fish for largies and the rocky rivers in the Ozarks for smallmouths. How durable is D2T, because I am planning on using it for clear coat on these baits, and I am asking because creek and river fishing really beats your lures up.

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Wish I could chime in here and say with confidence but I'm also just starting out using D2T as top coat. The finish looks feels durable.

I will have more input for you soon as I put them to the test up north here on glacial rock infested lakes. 

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Posted (edited)
46 minutes ago, chachybaby said:

Wish I could chime in here and say with confidence but I'm also just starting out using D2T as top coat. The finish looks feels durable.

I will have more input for you soon as I put them to the test up north here on glacial rock infested lakes. 

How much weight does it add to the lure? I am planning to put a thin coat on the cranks I am making.

Edited by RiverSmallieGuy
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We can open the flood gates and talk about price per bait, storage, hardness, flexibility, ease of use, clarity, etc.. and talk about every top coat out there.

Bottom line Devcon will work just fine, no worries.  I have used Devcon a lot just because easy to source, consistent in application/results, durable, very clear and amazing depth to lures, and easily available locally at multiple places. 

The only time I put much thought about weight with Devcon use is neutral buoyancy lures but then you just adjust the weight and right down water temp on the bills so you can pick and choose as needed.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Travis said:

We can open the flood gates and talk about price per bait, storage, hardness, flexibility, ease of use, clarity, etc.. and talk about every top coat out there.

Bottom line Devcon will work just fine, no worries.  I have used Devcon a lot just because easy to source, consistent in application/results, durable, very clear and amazing depth to lures, and easily available locally at multiple places. 

The only time I put much thought about weight with Devcon use is neutral buoyancy lures but then you just adjust the weight and right down water temp on the bills so you can pick and choose as needed.

 

 

Makes sense. Definitely going to try D2T soon then. I have never tried a 30 minute epoxy, and I don't have a turner or rotisserie. What would yall do to turn the bait? Should I just turn it in my hand?

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Yes you can "turn" by hand.  It has popped up a lot over the years on the site about methods and might be worth searching.   Just make sure to get as even as a coat as you can and brush excess towards the back hook hanger and brush it off into the waste.  Then hang the lure from the line tie for given amount of time.  Then hang by the rear hook hanger for a while, etc..

A 100 watt incandescent light bulb or blow dryer can be used to pop bubbles initially and make the epoxy a little more runny if it isn't smoothing out easily.  

If you have a craft store near buy might want to check it out they often sell simple turners for epoxying tumblers and might find a bargain.  My wife paid 7 bucks for one earlier this year and it worked fine on the few cups she did and would easily do a lure or two.   Microwave motor works well too and might find deals at a yard sale as things are warming up.

 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Travis said:

Yes you can "turn" by hand.  It has popped up a lot over the years on the site about methods and might be worth searching.   Just make sure to get as even as a coat as you can and brush excess towards the back hook hanger and brush it off into the waste.  Then hang the lure from the line tie for given amount of time.  Then hang by the rear hook hanger for a while, etc..

A 100 watt incandescent light bulb or blow dryer can be used to pop bubbles initially and make the epoxy a little more runny if it isn't smoothing out easily.  

If you have a craft store near buy might want to check it out they often sell simple turners for epoxying tumblers and might find a bargain.  My wife paid 7 bucks for one earlier this year and it worked fine on the few cups she did and would easily do a lure or two.   Microwave motor works well too and might find deals at a yard sale as things are warming up.

 

 

 

Do the tumbler turners come with frames to set them up or do I have to build one myself?

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The one my wife bought could be modified. It was similar to the one below.  She bought it so I didn't have to let her use my lure turner.   Problem is normally they are same price or slightly cheaper than a rotisserie motor. 

10659413_2.jpg?fit=inside%7C540:540

 

 

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Two things. First I’ve used D2T and BSI 30 minute epoxies with some success but found that TrueCoat works better and is more durable. It was specifically designed for baits. TrueCoat tends to have a longer working time. I have found the others to be just over five minutes, where TrueCoat is at least ten. Also TrueCoat is a little thinner and gets less bubbles. Only issue I have with it is that it comes in fairly large bottles. With the others, I could eyeball a 50/50 ratio  in the bottom of a mixing cup. With TrueCoat I have to used small graduated mixing cups to ensure a 50/50 mix.

Secondly, on all 30 minute epoxies, I think they have to be turned until they are well set up and I don’t see that can be done practically by hand.

I’ve attached photos of TrueCoat and my rotisserie based turner.

653AB6C0-9A7F-4BD9-99B3-52653F3554E6.jpeg

FA222731-24C5-45B2-A1D1-3EC22CD96D03.jpeg

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for less than $20 you can build a turner. A disco ball turner and 1x6 and your good to go. It's well worth the time if your thinking epoxy.

Clear coating is one of the trickier parts of a build to get right. I'd put as many advantages as you can in your favor. 

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7 hours ago, Outlaw4 said:

for less than $20 you can build a turner. A disco ball turner and 1x6 and your good to go. It's well worth the time if your thinking epoxy.

Clear coating is one of the trickier parts of a build to get right. I'd put as many advantages as you can in your favor. 

Agree... I wouldn't use the cup turner either or a disco ball turner but cost appears to be limiting factor on his threads.  Personally I would just get a rotisserie motor, my time is the most costly aspect of lure making and driving around looking for a bargain costs too much.

Devcon and E tex are commonly available and some stores are starting to carry Art Resin so figured those are the more likely scenarios as no shipping.

Of course other options out there but they cost more.

Edited by Travis
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I think any slow cure epoxy is fine.  D2T, Flexcoat, Envirotex Lite, etc all work.  Epoxy’s advantage?  It’s tough and thicker than most other options so resists impact and hook rash better than most.  The only thing maybe better is a good UV resin, which is also thick and even tougher;than epoxy.

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I use the D2T on a rotisserie and have had great results with it. It seems to hold up very well to the pike teeth I am throwing at.

I modified a cup turner I got on Amazon with a couple of wooden clock faces and dowels from Hobby Lobby. I have a total of $35 into my rotisserie and it's working great.

 

 

Cup turner.jpg

Rotisserie.jpg

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You can see the Ferris wheel turner in the background of this photo.  A bbq rotisserie replacement kit, with meat holders mounted on plywood discs, and suspended between a plywood bed setup.

Not hard to make, and cheap.

The kit came with motor, mounting bracket (which I rebent to fit my design), a rotisserie shaft, and two meat holding forks that locked onto the shaft with set screws so I could move the discs apart to fit the baits I was turning.

 

Edited by mark poulson
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Turn by hand is an option if you just do a few baits.  Turner becomes more essential the more baits you make.  You don't have to keep turning for a full thirty minutes with "30-min epoxy".  It will set up to a point that it won't run/drip in a lot less than 30 min.  It will still be tacky so you will need to hang it after initial solidification.  The 30 min time is to cure to hard/usable strength.  Hardness/strength will continue to increase for 24 hrs or more.  If you need a bit more working time, pour the epoxy into a cup that's big enough to spread it out flat (while still liquid) rather than in a compact thick mass (think cube, cylinder, sphere).  Epoxy heats up while it cures so the thinner the layer the easier heat is dissipated and then accumulated heat won't be able to accelerate the cure like it will in a thick mass.

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On 5/13/2022 at 10:43 PM, wchilton said:

Turn by hand is an option if you just do a few baits.  Turner becomes more essential the more baits you make.  You don't have to keep turning for a full thirty minutes with "30-min epoxy".  It will set up to a point that it won't run/drip in a lot less than 30 min.  It will still be tacky so you will need to hang it after initial solidification.  The 30 min time is to cure to hard/usable strength.  Hardness/strength will continue to increase for 24 hrs or more.  If you need a bit more working time, pour the epoxy into a cup that's big enough to spread it out flat (while still liquid) rather than in a compact thick mass (think cube, cylinder, sphere).  Epoxy heats up while it cures so the thinner the layer the easier heat is dissipated and then accumulated heat won't be able to accelerate the cure like it will in a thick mass.

So a thicker coat is going to set up quicker than a thinner coat.

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20 minutes ago, RiverSmallieGuy said:

So a thicker coat is going to set up quicker than a thinner coat.

Theoretically, but thick coat vs thin coat is not going to be noticeably different when it comes to heat dissipation.  On the lure you're only talking about a layer that's a fraction of an inch thick and the lure itself can absorb some heat.  In a small (mixing) cup with mixed epoxy you may be talking about as much as 1-in thickness, compared to 1/4in or 1/8in depth if poured into a larger drinking cup while being used.  If you want to try a little experiment, try comparing a small blob of epoxy in a cup in a hot water bath compared to same size blob in an unheated cup.  A very general rule for chemical reaction kinetics in a first-order reaction is the reaction will happen twice as quickly for each 10 deg C rise in temperature.  Note, that's 10 deg C or 18 deg F.  So if room temp is 75 deg F and you compare to curing at say 110 deg F, you should expect epoxy to harden around 4 times as fast (1/4 the time for the warmer one).  When a reaction generates heat, it can warm up the reaction products a lot more than that.  There's a type of polyurethane casting resin that turns from transparent brown color to creamy white color as it hardens.  You can really see this heat effect in a top-pour mold filled with this.  The "thick" areas (main body) will turn white much faster than the thin areas (small appendages) and sometimes you can see a thin layer of uncured resin at the edges of the mold (before full cure) because material at the edges is actually kept cool from contact with the relatively cool mold.

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On 5/15/2022 at 9:11 PM, RiverSmallieGuy said:

So a thicker coat is going to set up quicker than a thinner coat.

No...that's not (totally) correct. What @RiverSmallieGuy is referring to is this: If you mix up a set amount of epoxy...say in a small cup. The thick mas of epoxy will set off an exothermic reaction and set up really fast (as well as get hotter than hell). By spreading out the epoxy you are retarding that reaction ...thus extending the life of the pot.

There is no discernable difference (in cure time) in applying a thick of think coat of epoxy.

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