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goclones

Anyone have this happen dipping KBS?

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The finish "cracks" and it happens immediately after pulling the bait out of the KBS, not after drying. It seems to be in the KBS, not the paint, because they feel rough in the crackly areas after drying, not smooth. The baits that did it always had it happen right under the bill on the bottom and sometimes on the gill area. The paint was Createx and my last batch of baits dried almost 5 days before dipping. What causes this?

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Did you heat set each layer of paint after spraying or lay the paint on thick? I've had that exact same thing happen from not having the paint completely dry and it happened to be on that same blank ironically.  It seemed like the paint was dry to the touch, but apparently I hadn't dried the first few layers completely and when the KBS started curing it pulled up the undried layers.  

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3 hours ago, azsouth said:

There can be a few reasons why, Humidity, below 70, too much heat after applying KBS.... These are some of the reasons but not all....use the search feature at the top right.

Humidity is definitely below 70 where I am dipping and hanging. Way below. However, I did a batch of jerkbaits several weeks ago (my first KBS baits) and they were flawless. 

The room temp is high 60s low 70s where I'm dipping.

I've done a lot of searching online and haven't found much.

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3 hours ago, AZ Fisher said:

Did you heat set each layer of paint after spraying or lay the paint on thick? I've had that exact same thing happen from not having the paint completely dry and it happened to be on that same blank ironically.  It seemed like the paint was dry to the touch, but apparently I hadn't dried the first few layers completely and when the KBS started curing it pulled up the undried layers.  

Yes, I did heat set each layer and none of the paint was thick. After painting, I left town and they dried for 5 full days before I dipped so I have to believe the paint was dry.

It's so weird -- it appears just a few seconds after I pull the bait out of the KBS.

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Have you tried contacting the company? At the cost, I know how frustrating this can be. This looks like a reaction to the paint itself. What paint are you using? There are additives for adhesion promotion, undercoat clear, and other additives. are you reducing your paints? There are paints that are only compatible with their own proprietary brands. I hope you figure this out. I would also suggest that you contact some of those on YouTube that are using KBS. There is a new top coating  by Lurebuild.com called Lure coat ,you brush this on and it's formulated for airbrush paints.

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After re-reading your original post you may have received a bad batch. I know that KBS is air and humidity sensitive. Something could have been introduced during manufacturing or maybe shipping. I know people swear by it, and I haven't used it due to the cost, and right now shipping is outrageous.

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1 hour ago, Fishin Big said:

Have you tried contacting the company? At the cost, I know how frustrating this can be. This looks like a reaction to the paint itself. What paint are you using? There are additives for adhesion promotion, undercoat clear, and other additives. are you reducing your paints? There are paints that are only compatible with their own proprietary brands. I hope you figure this out. I would also suggest that you contact some of those on YouTube that are using KBS. There is a new top coating  by Lurebuild.com called Lure coat ,you brush this on and it's formulated for airbrush paints.

I did send them a text last night on the text support number with a few pictures. Haven't heard back yet.

I use all Createx. I wiped down the blanks with rubbing alcohol and let them dry before applying the base Createx opaque white coat. There is really only one or two coats of the Createx colors on top of the base depending on the color of the bait. I do reduce them when necessary.

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I have never used KBS - but some alcohols can cause issues with finishes.  I build rods and found my alcohol wipe down was messing with my epoxy causing fisheyes and such.  Maybe try a bait or test without the alcohol wipe down.

I use DN on my hardbaits and found I've had much better results finishing off my paint jobs with a final coat of Createx clear and then don't touch or wipe them down until I apply the DN - just let them dry completely, hit with some air then apply the DN.

Hope that helps. J.

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1 minute ago, Nathan said:

It looks like the KBS is actually reacting with the paint. Try dipping it in some pledge Floor wax and let dry..then dip in your KBS.

 The pledge will provide a thin barrier..Nate

D6E1A93E-7A05-43E9-AC7F-A03FD5A0A25C.png

Interesting...I'll have to give that a try.

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I use KBS with createx and the only time I have seen what the picture shows was from the paint not being dry enough. Outside of that I have not had an issue with KBS and createx paint so they are compatible 

from what has been described the paint was cured in the OPs case so I don’t know what went wrong 

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Posted (edited)
On 4/5/2022 at 2:18 PM, Nathan said:

It looks like the KBS is actually reacting with the paint. Try dipping it in some pledge Floor wax and let dry..then dip in your KBS.

 The pledge will provide a thin barrier..Nate

D6E1A93E-7A05-43E9-AC7F-A03FD5A0A25C.png

 

So this (I realize it is named Revive It Floor Gloss now) is proving to be a challenge to locate in stock. Any alternatives to this?

Edited by goclones
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After much web searching, I tried something called Holland House Quick Shine Multi-Surface Floor Finish. Looks milky but is clear after you put it on. I did a batch of cranks like I did before but dipped the baits in this stuff before the first dip of KBS and no paint wrinkling. So this seems to be an acceptable substitute for Pledge Revive It. 

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I started using KBS because people talked about how simple it was. Just dip and hang! But there's nothing simple about it. KBS requires so many different accessories and so much babying just to use it at all.

Need to transfer to a new container with a seal on the lid, use bloxygen, thin it with xylene, paint must be fully cured and precoated with floor gloss before use, it smells godawful, takes several days to dry, gets bubbles, and requires multiple coats for any kind of durability. Oh and be sure you don't leave the lid 1/8 turn too loose or the whole jar is ruined. So glad I got away from that stuff. It might be good for cars but it has no place in lure making IMO.

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Personally I don’t find KBS complicated 

I brush it on thin no dipping. Thin coats prevent bubbles. I only had bubbles when I first tried KBS

I store it in small canning jars with plastic wrap between the lid and jar. Nothing else but I go through a jar reasonably quick once I start using it. Unopened canning jar no issues even after a year(miss placed one and found it later still good). 
 

I don’t thin KBS at all and have never used floor wax or bloxygen 

I heat set all my paint layers and have had no issues with KBS within a few hours. Without heat setting you need to wait longer. Heat setting is just good practice regardless of what clear coat you use

I use multiple coats of clear regardless if it’s Etex or KBS because my main target is pike. I do apply 2 extra layers with KBS but the durability is not an issue especially considering how thin the layers are

I hang my lures to dry in a Rubbermaid with wet paper towels in the bottom and tape the lid. This controls the smell and the moisture speeds up curing time. Nice bonus is it also helps prevent dust ex from getting in the clear coat

Personally I would say KBS is actually really simple from my experience but it’s like any clear coat you need to work with it. 
 

Pick your poison all clear coats have positive’s and negative’s 

 

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I see a lot of post where people are heat setting Createx paint. If you read the tec sheets on the website

they say not to use heat on any of their paints. This causes a thin film of latex type layer and causes adhesion 

problems. That might cause lifting with clears. I have never had a problem with the KBS or Epoxy. Createx is all I ever

use, mostly Wicked and Illustration with no heat. 

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57 minutes ago, Cliffs Lures said:

I see a lot of post where people are heat setting Createx paint. If you read the tec sheets on the website

they say not to use heat on any of their paints. This causes a thin film of latex type layer and causes adhesion 

problems. That might cause lifting with clears. I have never had a problem with the KBS or Epoxy. Createx is all I ever

use, mostly Wicked and Illustration with no heat. 

The way to avoid adhesion problems is to use thin coats, dried with a hair dryer between coats.  Too thick, and the paint will glaze over, trapping moisture inside.

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32 minutes ago, Cliffs Lures said:

I see a lot of post where people are heat setting Createx paint. If you read the tec sheets on the website

they say not to use heat on any of their paints. This causes a thin film of latex type layer and causes adhesion 

problems. That might cause lifting with clears. I have never had a problem with the KBS or Epoxy. Createx is all I ever

use, mostly Wicked and Illustration with no heat. 

If you apply too much heat or direct heat or too long it becomes a problem. If you do this it will even slightly lift or bubble 

Using a heat gun waving is back and forth between layers for short time I have had no issues. I have had issues when not heat settings when painting baits with multiple layers. The paint takes much longer to cure properly for starters 

Clear coating with KBS after 24hrs on a lure with multiple paint layers( fairly thick paint job ) is when I experienced exactly what is pictured in this thread. I have experienced 0 issues well heat settings properly and I have applied KBS as fast as 8hrs after painting 

I have lost count on how many baits I have heat set createx and coated by brushing on KBS with zero issues. 
 

I have definitely experienced issues when I first started playing with KBS ranging from bubbles, wrinkled paint(like the pic), and just plain old crappy finishes. 
 

Thin coats, dry paint(like I said I heat set), I brush on not dip(dipping would be wasteful do to lure size is why), clean bait, and wait 24hrs between coats(the instructions say you can do it sooner but I always got bubbles) and I have no problems

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1 minute ago, mark poulson said:

The way to avoid adhesion problems is to use thin coats, dried with a hair dryer between coats.  Too thick, and the paint will glaze over, trapping moisture inside.

I don’t know about you but I heat set between every color personally 

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