Big Epp Posted July 18, 2022 Report Share Posted July 18, 2022 Hey all! I'm working on a small swimbait/wakebait. It's maybe 3" long and my blanks are about 3/4-1" thick. I'm going to use the pin style joint where the connection comes out of the back end and is pinned into holes in the front end. What size drill bit would you use to make the joint holes? I've got some made of redwood and some made with PVC. Do you have any concerns with the strength of this style of joint? Any concerns with it splitting or tearing out? I've only done one lure with this style joint, so I'm very new to this process... thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ Fisher Posted July 18, 2022 Report Share Posted July 18, 2022 (edited) While I haven't made baits that small, I tend to use 3/16 SS welding rod for the pin. I run the screw eyes into the back end of each section and the pin thru the corresponding front section. If I'm using a 3/16 pin, I use the same size drill bit and open the hole just a hair, 1/4 bit was just too large of a hole for me. I have some 1/16 welding rod that would probably work for your sized bait, I would use a 1/16- 1/8 drill bit for that size. Be careful drilling the pin's hole to make sure it is centered well. I would be concerned about how close your lip slot is to the nose of the bait and you still need to predrill and to add a line tie there. That has the potential to be a very weak spot and break when a lip is that close to the front. I would predrill the line tie hole at an upward angle and add a long .072 screw eye that could get to reach far into the the nose section. Both PVC and Redwood are very buoyant and will probably need some bottom ballast weighting. Keep that in mind when you are placing your bottom joint screw eyes and/or the receiving slot/pocket and hook hangers. You can run out of room in the bottom of a small bait real quick. Hope this helps... Edited July 18, 2022 by AZ Fisher 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flaswimbaiter Posted July 18, 2022 Report Share Posted July 18, 2022 For that size I would 1/16th drill and SS wire. AZ was right about the lip and weight locations. For a bait that small I would use a hardwood not PVC because of its buoyancy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Epp Posted July 18, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2022 Thanks guys! Redwood is incredibly boyouant, so I'll definitely be adding quite a bit of lead. I like the idea of using a hardwood instead. I wouldn't need nearly as much lead, and the stronger wood would certainly reduce the risk of lure failure. I traced my pattern and altered the lip location. Let me know what you think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travis Posted July 18, 2022 Report Share Posted July 18, 2022 (edited) Why the angled line tie? Personally I would ditch the upward line tie location. First most joint points, will end up being top and bottom of the segment so just makes thing easier with the line tie straight. I also predrill with things square so really easy to get a vertical line tie and horizontal hook hangers. I also try putting as much wood above and below the line tie as possible for strength. Probably not an issue as we get caught up in design principles with no regard to real world applications. Edited July 18, 2022 by Travis 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Epp Posted July 18, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2022 Kinda feels like I'm showing you my underwear here...but this is what I'm thinking. How would you work lip location to avoid interfering with the front hook? I saw a video from he engineered angler where he figured angling the front and rear line tie and hook hanger helps with overall strength. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travis Posted July 18, 2022 Report Share Posted July 18, 2022 I haven't watched any of his video or messed with doing any force calculations.... A lure isn't static and I have a huge shock absorber rod and arms that makes most calculated forces impossible to achieve in the real world. Even without that I typically use monofilament line with a break strength that sort of prohibits from me possibly reaching failure limits of glues, line ties, wood strength, etc.. I guess to sum it up in 30 plus years of fishing never had lure fail in this manner (bass fishing only). I have had lip ties pull out and lips snap off but never a wood body to fail but specialize in small fish. I don't think the previous lip slot would have caused problems honestly especially based on the wood grain but then again often don't know till you hit the water. If you take a look at some of the hybrid swim/cranks you will see the front hook hanger ends up very close to the lip. I haven't fished many of them so not for sure if a major concern or not. Mike Bucca Bull Rat Swimbait and Bull shad for example. Typically as long as the hook hangs sufficiently below the lip not much issue. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Epp Posted July 18, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2022 I very much appreciate the variety of perspectives on this site, as well as the wealth and diversity of experience! I generally take a very unscientific approach to all this, so I try to glean what I can when I can. That's a very good point about the shock absorber too. I was sort of thinking of tossing this with piece of rebar and 65lb braid, so I'd better take some of those stress limits pretty seriously... The first bunch will all have the lip in the original position, as they are already cut, and then I'll adjust as needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outlaw4 Posted July 19, 2022 Report Share Posted July 19, 2022 you can also run line ties through the lip slots. do this all the time with thru wire. i just drill a hole or make a notch thru the lip. maybe could use circuit board to keep thinner slot? i personally like using screw in hook hangers / line tie on a new bait until i can get them in the right spots for sure. i do this on baits that are eventually going to be thru wire as well. i hate hooks that tangle with each other or on the lips. once you get that dialed then glue some in. if you are going to add any bevels to the joint to get added movement, i think maybe it'd be better to have the pin joint on the second section of the body. but im no expert here so may make no difference 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flaswimbaiter Posted July 20, 2022 Report Share Posted July 20, 2022 It’s good that you changed the lip angle if you wake a wake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Epp Posted July 21, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2022 On 7/20/2022 at 7:30 AM, Flaswimbaiter said: It’s good that you changed the lip angle if you wake a wake. The last "wake" i made dives about 4-6 feet... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flaswimbaiter Posted July 21, 2022 Report Share Posted July 21, 2022 34 minutes ago, Big Epp said: The last "wake" i made dives about 4-6 feet... Resin wakes much better than wood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD_mudbug Posted July 22, 2022 Report Share Posted July 22, 2022 I have made several baits where the lip is close to the front hook hanger. If the hook catching the lip does become a problem, I find that a short shank treble of the same size will usually fix it. I use Mustad KVD Elite 2X Short Shank Trebles and Owner St-35 when I run into problems. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Epp Posted August 26, 2022 Author Report Share Posted August 26, 2022 I got one of these done with the lip in the original position (it was already cut). I did change the line tie location. Overall it swam well. It was more consistent when the line angle was parallel to the surface of the water. When I held the rod at a high angle it seemed like the lure was fighting the angle. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
