Bills!

[Rick Howard]

Not the kind ya gotta pay.  I already know all about those.  
 

Are there general rules of thumb regarding a bill characteristics and it’s impact on the bait or are these things only determined by trip and error.   As in; wider bills = x result, longer bills = x result, x angle in the bill = x result, line tie position = x etc.  

It’s pretty evident that there is an intricate balance between many variables here. 
 

Im trying to figure out why some baits dive quickly while others more gradually to the same depth.  Or how I can modify a bait that dives quickly to dive gradually.  

[Vodkaman]

There is a formula for the frequency of the wobble, called the Strouhal formula. It sounds complex but it is very simple, only requiring a simple calculator.

F = St x V / W

F = frequency of the wobble. Cycles per second.

St = Strouhal number, about 0.12 for flat lips.

V = velocity, how fast the retrieval, measured in metres per second.

W = lip width, measured in metres.

have a spreadsheet that eliminates the fuss, just type in your data. Computers only. Just message me.

Dave

[mark poulson]

9 hours ago, Vodkaman said:

There is a formula for the frequency of the wobble, called the Strouhal formula. It sounds complex but it is very simple, only requiring a simple calculator.

 

F = St x V / W

 

F = frequency of the wobble. Cycles per second.

 

St = Strouhal number, about 0.12 for flat lips.

 

V = velocity, how fast the retrieval, measured in metres per second.

 

W = lip width, measured in metres.

 

have a spreadsheet that eliminates the fuss, just type in your data. Computers only. Just message me.

 

Dave

 

That sounds simple, but, then again, so does using a smart phone....

I would ask you for a copy of your spreadsheet, but we both know I would never be able to use it>

[Vodkaman]

You should at least take a look, it is very simple. Here is a photo of the screen. simply enter the data in the two yellow boxes and see the result in the blue. The rest is information about the formula which you can ignore.

The red box is the Strouhal number which you can change to see the effect.

Dave

[Rick Howard]

Thanks Vodkaman.  That is very cool

Any formulas or rules that will indicate the angle which the bait dives at?

It’s strange that few folks talk in depth about dive angle.  When selecting a bait, at least to me, the angle which a bait dives is equally as important as the depth it dives to.   Pretty much everyone indicates their bait “dives to depth quickly” and a depth range which the bait dives too.  “Dives to depth quickly” is pretty subjective.    I would like to know if there is a way to tell, without casting and retrieving, which baits will dive at a steed angle and which baits dive at a shallow angle.  I find both types useful in different situations.

Edited December 9, 2022 by Rick Howard

[Travis]

11 minutes ago, Rick Howard said:

Thanks Vodkaman.  That is very cool

Any formulas or rules that will indicate the angle which the bait dives at?

It’s strange that few folks talk in depth about dive angle.  When selecting a bait, at least to me, the angle which a bait dives is equally as important as the depth it dives to.   Pretty much everyone indicates their bait “dives to depth quickly” and a depth range which the bait dives too.  “Dives to depth quickly” is pretty subjective.    I would like to know if there is a way to tell, without casting and retrieving, which baits will dive at a steed angle and which baits dive at a shallow angle.  I find both types useful in different situations.

 

Old information was available just didn't really sell for various reasons.   Frankly if you fish you know this information if you pay attention.  Books are great but at some point it boils down to fishing and time on the water.  My Uncle was a shop teacher and can spit out all sorts of facts and knowledge about wood working but yet he can't build a birdhouse.  

https://www.bassmaster.com/how-to/news/a-guide-to-precision-cranking/

https://www.amazon.com/Precision-Casting-Comprehensive-Crankbait-Running/dp/0966301730

Likely can find it scanned somewhere if you search long enough.  At one time I had a Russian site that pretty much had any thing I possibly could think of.  Research articles, books, etc..  

[Rick Howard]

Thanks Travis.  Cool article and the book is pretty neat.  For $170 I could buy and test the baits myself lol.  It is starting to look like I have have to

[BobP]

I don’t think there is a practical way to design lips without iterative testing and modification.  Lips don’t work by themselves.  They are attached to a bait and the whole assembly, its shape, weight, and balance determines how it will swim and how deep.  The shortcut I use is to copy a commercial bait i like exactly, and then customize the copies one after another to get different and perhaps better performance characteristics.  Going through that process will teach you a lot about bait design.  

[Flaswimbaiter]

I have made a lot of baits with bills, different sizes and angles and have yet to come up with any consistent pattern.  I have two baits similar in size with the same angle and one dives deeper than the other. I did learn that size doesn’t dictate depth, angle is more important. Size can cause greater turbulence. This bait below look odd because the the large lip, but you can barley turn the handle and it starts moving side to side.