Experienced glide Bait builders

[bassshack]

I’m building a 7 inch shad body chopper before I waste a lot of time. Also, the water is about ready to get hard here in Ohio. My question has anyone added a third treble hook to the tail. If so, did it affect the chop

[mark poulson]

In my experience, anything added to the tail creates drag, and slows down the swimming action.

[Flaswimbaiter]

I have tried putting a hook on the tail of a glide and it never worked, it always affected the action. I would stick with a soft tail. 

[bassshack]

On 1/18/2023 at 9:36 PM, Flaswimbaiter said:

I have tried putting a hook on the tail of a glide and it never worked, it always affected the action. I would stick with a soft tail. 

What are you using  for the tails and fins?

[bassshack]

Just now, bassshack said:

What are you using  for the tails and fins?

 

On 1/14/2023 at 12:05 PM, mark poulson said:

In my experience, anything added to the tail creates drag, and slows down the swimming action.

What should i use to make tails and fins, i don't want something supper ridged. Im using plastisol with alot of hardner but it just to hard to work with burns supper easy if it wasn't for burning id use it I like the feel of it. what do  you recomend ?

[Flaswimbaiter]

1 hour ago, bassshack said:

What are you using  for the tails and fins?

For glides I use silicone tails, for other baits I use Lexan.  You could also make a tail out of plastic or a brush tail. 

[JD_mudbug]

I have used plastisol, feathers, paint brush bristles, silicone mats, flexible plastic cut from various containers and notebook covers, even a thin flat belt from a small piece of machinery. I like tails that will flex and compress some if the bait is bit from behind. 

[Zbowe]

This is my first post to tackle underground and thought where better to post than somewhere where experienced bait makers could help by critiquing my design. Here are my questions as a complete newbie. This bait without tail is 7” long and  1” thick near nose and rib cage. I used  25% microspheres (140ml resin and 35ml microspheres) the bait with the lead shot is 4.7ounces. I put the joint almost dead center and hot glued lead shot for ballast/balance in the water. I tried gliding it and it totally sucked! : ) 

It did float balanced at the top of the waterline however, when I went to reel quarter turns it didn’t glide and listed to one side.

1. Is my bait completely too blocky? If so, should I sand it down to a sleeker design and create a new mold? My edges on top and bottom seem too abrupt  

2. Do I need to use more microspheres? Is the general rule for glide baits to make the bait really float (say 50% microspheres) then weight it down in the water?

3. Should the glide bait be near the water surface or 6-12” under the water?

4. could the terrible swimming action, because I simply had lead shot hot glue to the bottom of the bait versus recessed within the bait?

I would be incredibly grateful for any help you can offer. Like I said, I’m completely new to all this….but it’s very addicting and feeds my fishing habit. 

[mark poulson]

I achieved success building glide baits thanks for the most part to the generous help of people here on TU.

For me, I carve the bait to it's finished shape, cut it into two section, and add my screw eye and pin hinges.

I ballast the two sections separately to get them to fall level, and at the same rate.  I do this with all the hardware and hooks installed, but not painted, so I can alter stuff without ruining the finished bait.  I use Azek PVC trim board to build my baits, because it is totally waterproof, which lets me test the bait as much as I need to, and the trim board is as buoyant as medium balsa.

Once I've gotten the bait to that point, I take it apart again.  I drop the two sections, side by side, in a bucket of water, and add ballast as needed to get them to fall at the same rate.  I add additional ballast equally to both sections to get the rate of fall I want once the two sections fall correctly.  I use 1/4" lead wire in 1/4" holes in the belly to add or subtract weight.

Then I reassemble, and make sure the hinges are totally loose and free of friction.

I adjust the gap between the sections to achieve the amount of glide.  The larger the gap, the shorter the side to side glide.  Typically, for baits 5" and less, I want that shorter glide, so I can work them more in place without moving them away from my target area. 6" and over are smoother gliding, so the gap is tighter.

I try to make sure the bait tapers from thinner at the nose to the belly/hinge point, and then back down to narrow at the tail.  I also try to make my baits thicker at the top than at the bottom, so they are more top buoyant.

Once you get a bait that glides, play around with the joint gap until you get the glide you want.

Lastly, I never use an O ring or snap.  I tie directly to my horizontal line tie.

Here's my first glide bait, and it still catches fish:  

 

Edited March 20, 2023 by mark poulson

[JD_mudbug]

I have a glide bait made by Duel which is fairly blocky at the shoulders, where the sides of the body meet the top. So, I don't think that abruptness is killing the glide. It can cause a thin area in your clear coat so I round the shoulders on the baits I make. Those baits do have a taper as Mark described, thinner at the head, getting thicker as you get to the joint, and narrowing to the tail.

As for the depth a glide should run, on the surface or below, that depends on the depth you want to fish. I have surface gliders, slow sinking gliders and some faster sinking glides I can fish deep. As long as the sections sink at close to the same rate and the joint has a decent range of motion, it can work. I have some glides with minimum ballast in both section. Each section floats. The ballast is just to keep the bait upright while it glides on the surface.

The V-joint in your pic is very pointed with only a slight gap between the sections. It may not have enough range of motion. I would keep the back section point the same and widen the angle of the V at the back of front section. I have seen people do this to mass-produced glide baits to increase the glide.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sU9ebyGd90A

When I cut a V-joint I am usually doing the reverse of that, but yours is already made. After I cut a V-joint, I make the back section more pointy than V in front of it by hitting the sides of the point on the back section with a belt sander. You can also try keeping the parallel gap and just make it wider by having longer screws come out of the front section to see if there is any difference.

I would take one of your cast bodies and taper the head more. Do the same to the tail end on the back section and test again. You might be able to save a lot of detail work and use it as a new master. You could re-carve the gill plate and the small amount of the detail work you sand off.

I do use a snap on large glides over 7”. I don’t use a split ring with the snap. I seem to get better action on big glides with a snap as opposed to direct tie. I find it easier to get a big glide to do a 180 degree flip with a snap. I would try that bait directly tied and with a snap to see if it makes a difference.

If all else fails, put a lip on it. Some my best lures are failed glides that got turned into large jointed crank baits. I wouldn't scrap a mold until I tried all options with it, either with a lip or trying 2 joints to make it a 3-section swimmer.

 

Edited March 21, 2023 by JD_mudbug
typo

[Flaswimbaiter]

I would recommend a few things to try. Try a joint angle of about 30 degrees. I place my joint at about 60/40 without the tail. The overall shape isn’t bad, but try making the nose more pointed and the area just before the tail a little thinner. I don’t think blocky matters, but I make mine more rounded with the belly thinner than the back. 

I have tested baits with big weight hanging from them and you still will get some type of glide, make sure to distribute the weight as evenly you can. once you put the weights in it will glide better. I personally don’t mold a bait unless I can make it work as wood. But if you do mold cut back you balloons to about 8-10 %, it takes a lot less weight to balance it. 

What kind of tail are you using?

glides are a pain, the shape, joint, tail, weight, and line tie location can all affect the action. Keep experimenting and don’t give up and as Mudbug said, if it does work put a lip on it. 

 

[Zbowe]

8 hours ago, JD_mudbug said:

If all else fails, put a lip on it. Some my best lures are failed glides that got turned into large jointed crank baits. I wouldn't scrap a mold until I tried all options with it, either with a lip or trying 2 joints to make it a 3-section swimmer.

Man, I truly appreciate the insights! Especially this part above. I know I’ve read several times not to give up and be distraught when all your hard work seems to lead to failure, but man was I there. This post really helps give me perspective and some fresh ideas  I will def try to sand different tapers. Also, I did wonder about the multiple sections thought, maybe I can make this a multi-jointed Swimbait. I’ll let you all know how she turns out. Fingers crossed!

 

[Zbowe]

7 hours ago, Flaswimbaiter said:

 

 I have tested baits with big weight hanging from them and you still will get some type of glide, make sure to distribute the weight as evenly you can. once you put the weights in it will glide better. I personally don’t mold a bait unless I can make it work as wood. But if you do mold cut back you balloons to about 8-10 %, it takes a lot less weight to balance it

you guys are awesome! Thanks JD_mud bug and Flaswimbaiter for taking the time to respond and give me some pearls    ! I plan on using paint brush bristles on this first one. I’ll try to preshape them before installing them. My goal was to make an extra large gold shiner bait. I’ll probably eventually make some silicone tails for different baits. Do y’all weigh you MBs or simply measure the volume before mixing it into your resin? Good stuff gents!

 

 

[Outlaw4]

13 hours ago, mark poulson said:

I

I ballast the two sections separately to get them to fall level, and at the same rate.  I do this with all the hardware and hooks installed, but not painted, so I can alter stuff without ruining the finished bait.  I use Azek PVC trim board to build my baits, because it is totally waterproof, which lets me test the bait as much as I need to, and the trim board is as buoyant as medium balsa.

Once I've gotten the bait to that point, I take it apart again.  I drop the two sections, side by side, in a bucket of water, and add ballast as needed to get them to fall at the same rate.  I add additional ballast equally to both sections to get the rate of fall I want once the two sections fall correctly.  I use 1/4" lead wire in 1/4" holes in the belly to add or subtract weight.

 

what do you use to ballast the trim board. can you pour lead into it? or do you have to glue it?

[JD_mudbug]

I am no expert but lead melts at around 621 F. PVC will melt anywhere from 180 F to 500 F depending on the formula. Flexible stuff like shower curtains have a lower melting point. Rigid stuff like boards and pipe have higher melting points. Molten lead will be hotter than the toughest PVC's melting point. So, I would not pour molten  lead into it.

I have seen molten lead poured to seal a joint between a cast iron pipe and a CPVC pipe. CPVC is specialized for higher temps and the plumber knew what he was doing. PVC trim boards can warp on hot sunny days. So I highly doubt trim boards would fare well against molten lead. Trim boards are perfectly fine for lure bodies given the size of even the biggest lures. I just wouldn't use molten lead.

I no longer pour lead. I use 1/8" diameter or 1/4" diameter solid coil sinker lead for ballast. I used to use cylindrical lead finesse sinkers but I can no longer get those due my state's lead ban.

https://www.basspro.com/shop/en/bass-pro-shops-xps-finesse-weights

1/4" diameter lead:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003OCAFEC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

1/8" diameter lead:

https://www.amazon.com/Bullet-Weights-1-Pound-Fishing-8-Inch/dp/B00CMR7EX0/ref=pd_rhf_d_ee_s_gccp_rtpb_sccl_2_3/143-4076970-1543140?pd_rd_w=vngFW&content-id=amzn1.sym.df3d5bde-1953-4d58-8d9a-9d2bb11a39c6&pf_rd_p=df3d5bde-1953-4d58-8d9a-9d2bb11a39c6&pf_rd_r=A2BVHPNDVVAG7XZMHPFQ&pd_rd_wg=MGVUc&pd_rd_r=ad49f5a2-3fe8-4e62-91e3-f90b3a6b1605&pd_rd_i=B00CMR7EX0&psc=1

To put ballast in PVC trim board or wood, I drill a hole with a 5/32" or 9/32" bit depending on the diameter size of the ballast weight I am using. If I can't find those bits, I will use 1/8' or 1/4" and run the drill in and out a few times to widen the hole slightly. I coat the inside of the hole with superglue or epoxy using a cheap brush (30 pack brushes for $2 in Walmart craft section). I slide a 1/8" or 1/4" diameter length cut off from the coil lead into the hole. After the glue/epoxy dries, I seal the hole with the usual stuff like super glue and baking soda, epoxy, or Bondo. I have also used wood and plastic plugs if I am not lazy. I have used discs cut from the handle of a cheap salad spoon to plug ballast holes in PVC boards.

Edited March 21, 2023 by JD_mudbug

[mark poulson]

6 hours ago, Outlaw4 said:

what do you use to ballast the trim board. can you pour lead into it? or do you have to glue it?

I would not try and pour molten lead into PVC.  The fumes would be terrible, and probably toxic.  Instead, I drill 1/4" holes up from the belly, and use 1/4" lead wire for ballast.   By using lead wire I can quickly and easily change the amount of ballast to get the bait's action and rate of fall right.

[Flaswimbaiter]

I use weight to measure the micro balloons.  I use rice to get an estimate for my resin, then multiple the percentage for the weight of the MB.  I like silicon tails, but with everything there are trade offs. 

[Big Epp]

Do you pour your baits in 2 parts, or pour 1 bait and then cut it?

[Vodkaman]

1 hour ago, Flaswimbaiter said:

I use weight to measure the micro balloons.

I was hoping you would use weight, using volume, as some people do, is meaningless.

This has been a good subject, I have followed with great interest. But, you should have started a new thread for it. Do NOT do it now, way too late, just a note for next time.

Dave

[UKandy]

As dave said above, use weight for the microballoons, also I found with my glides that there really is no fast way to perfection you just have to keep testing all elements until you reach something you're happy with, the biggest thing that caused my glides to either work or not was weight placements & a level sink rate 

Andy.

[Flaswimbaiter]

7 hours ago, UKandy said:

a level sink rate 

Andy.

This is so important ^^^^^^^ sink level and slow. I had some that sank too fast and once I drilled out the weight the glide was much better. 

[walkercope]

What resins are you guys pouring your baits with?  I've finished modeling a glide in CAD and planning to use smooth-on featherlite, but I did the math and found I needed to add a full ounce to the front half to get the overall density (weight/volume of water displaced) right, which feels a bit excessive.  Planning on using finesse weights from BPS as the ballast since they're cheap.  I want about a 3"/sec sink rate, but for the first attempt I'm going to make it neutrally buoyant without hooks and see what happens. 

 

I've been sitting/thinking on this project for too long now...at this point I just need to send it and see what happens.

[Hillbilly voodoo]

For resin I use Alumilite white and micro balloons 

I don’t use any mathematical formulas but instead I develop recipes for each individual design. I use layers that very from pure resin for a ballast to highly buoyant mix of resin/micro balloons. A lot of my baits have zero lead just layers with different resin mixes. At limes I use bird shot to add extra weight and most of the time the lure or mold is designed so I can just pour it into the mold so it settles into position 

I figured out my method of doing things through trying different things, failing and adjusting. I create a master and mold test a few recipes till I am happy with the action. From experience I now just know what needs to be done and it doesn’t take much to get my recipes correct 

I keep a note book with the recipes for every design I have made and it makes a huge difference to be able to look back when creating something new

You can achieve different things with resin/micro balloons when you stop trying to duplicate wood and just create different resin mixes to find the ideal buoyancy or sink rate

I have never and will never pour hot lead into a bait because there is better options. I don’t even own a lead pot because I don’t need it. With lead bird shot and coils of lead that are available it’s just easier/faster to use these vs hot lead. You also have no concerns of burning yourself or the blank. You can also be more precise with your weight 

Been using bird shot or coiled lead for over 20years with both wood and resin baits when needed. There is no need to pour hot lead into a bait 

There is my two cents and information on my methods.

Think outside the box, fail, adjust and try things it pays off 

Now if only the spam disappeared from this forum I might hang around more again 

[Outback Jack]

I have made a DRT swim bait. Tiny klash imitation. Itsinks perfectly level. 
very slow sink!  Glides perfectly side to side. But if I retrieve it a little quick it wants to roll and even spin. Is this weight placement?

  Tohickon lure Co.

[Flaswimbaiter]

On 3/8/2024 at 1:16 PM, Outback Jack said:

I have made a DRT swim bait. Tiny klash imitation. Itsinks perfectly level. 
very slow sink!  Glides perfectly side to side. But if I retrieve it a little quick it wants to roll and even spin. Is this weight placement?

  Tohickon lure Co.

I would say so. Most glides that roll for me  it’s either that or the ratio of buoyancy vs weight.   What I mean by that is if your resin bait is too heavy and you have to put less weight to get it to be slow sink, there may not be enough weight to actually stabilize it.  I hope that makes sense. The tail can also be a factor. Too long, too stiff or too short. I just made a mini mullet glide, it worked perfectly until paint and clear and now its action is different. Still trying to get it tuned.