mark poulson Posted December 1, 2010 Report Share Posted December 1, 2010 (edited) Okay, here's a thought, probably worth as much as you're paying for it, but here goes. I am very impatient, so I usually shape and prime my lures one day, and paint and dip them in top coat them the next. I use Createx for my paint schemes, and dry each coat with a hair dryer. I speed the drying process between dips of the top coat with a hair dryer, too. I don't get the peeling off of the moisture cured urethane that others have experienced. I'm wondering if my topcoat is actually bonding to the Createx, since I top coat right after I finish painting? Could the fresh paint actually bond to the urethane the way the second and third coats of the urethane bond to the first? I wonder if the whole scheme just kind of melts together, because it's so fresh. Would that be the case with the new DN too? Just a thought. Edited December 1, 2010 by mark poulson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiverMan Posted December 2, 2010 Report Share Posted December 2, 2010 Sounds like Dick needs to go back to the original coating and find a way to store it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobv Posted December 2, 2010 Report Share Posted December 2, 2010 Sounds like Dick needs to go back to the original coating and find a way to store it. He didn't change because he wanted to, one of the chemicals to make the original is no longer available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted December 2, 2010 Report Share Posted December 2, 2010 Has anyone gotten an update on the new formula? Or when it will be available? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dicknite Posted December 3, 2010 Report Share Posted December 3, 2010 Has anyone gotten an update on the new formula? Or when it will be available? Well, some good news and some other possibly good news. I have decided to go with the DN2 as you guys have been calling it - the Water Reducible - for those of you who it will work for. I am anticipating being able to ship it within 2 - 3 weeks. Hopefully sooner. The other possibly good news is that I have a new vendor for making the original moisture cure lined up. I won't be making it in-house now, but it will be to my specs and the first batch of it looks exactly like the old stuff - except it levels even better (so, glossier) and is a touch more durable than the original. Same storage challenges, but for those who that is not an issue for, it will (everyone cross your fingers) be available. No timeline just yet. Another bit of news - in my search, I found what can be described as a liquid plastic. It will work well on wood, foam, and cork type lures for a sealer or a top-coat, but won't work well on metal lures as expansion/shrinkage of the metal causes it to lose adhesion and fall off. With soft materials, it soaks in and adheres. This stuff is pretty cool! Looks like I will have a line of 3 different top-coats that folks can use depending on their needs... So, if we can, I would like to get a bit of a handle on how many of you would be interested in the new (DN2) water reducible formula either in the interim or as a replacement for the old formula? Thanks for your patience guys - and for all your help and insight. I could never have moved this fast without all your help and ideas! TackleUnderground and the TackleUndergrounders ROCK! Will know more and post more about the new (DN2) within a week or so... Dick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tc-lures Posted December 3, 2010 Report Share Posted December 3, 2010 So, if we can, I would like to get a bit of a handle on how many of you would be interested in the new (DN2) water reducible formula either in the interim or as a replacement for the old formula? Thanks for your patience guys - and for all your help and insight. I could never have moved this fast without all your help and ideas! TackleUnderground and the TackleUndergrounders ROCK! Will know more and post more about the new (DN2) within a week or so... Dick Dick, I am interested in the new DN2 as a replacement for my current topcoat (Nu-Lustre 55) Thanks, Todd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted December 3, 2010 Report Share Posted December 3, 2010 Looks like I will have a line of 3 different top-coats that folks can use depending on their needs... Oh no , I can imagine all the top coat threads over the next couple of years It looks as though you have come through for the lure builders. Lets hope that the light at the end of the tunnel is not a train comming the other way. Congratulations Dick, in anticipation of three new top coats. Something for everyone. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CedarLakeMusky Posted December 3, 2010 Report Share Posted December 3, 2010 Dick, I would like to try the new DN2 on my musky lures!! CLM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dictator Of Painters Posted December 3, 2010 Report Share Posted December 3, 2010 Count me in for the DN2, glad to see it's happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted December 3, 2010 Report Share Posted December 3, 2010 Count me in for the DN2, glad to see it's happening. +1 I'm all in, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hughesy Posted December 3, 2010 Report Share Posted December 3, 2010 Looks like I will have a line of 3 different top-coats that folks can use depending on their needs... I'll take all 3 thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nugene Posted December 3, 2010 Report Share Posted December 3, 2010 ME TOO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted December 3, 2010 Report Share Posted December 3, 2010 I'm wanting to try the new formula as well. Also interested in the "liquid plastic". Would like to know more about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Moreau Posted December 3, 2010 Report Share Posted December 3, 2010 I would like to try the new DN2 and the liquid plastic. Great news on the old formula too! What a great early christmas presant this is!!! Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiverMan Posted December 3, 2010 Report Share Posted December 3, 2010 (edited) However after 24 hrs under water the entire bait was covered with pimples and the clear and white could be scraped off with your fingernail. Assuming it was ruined I set aside and watched football all day and that evening went in to see about stripping the lure. I was amazed to find all the pimples gone and the finish had rehardened to a point I couldn't scrap it up even where I had cut the finish. It also appears to have bonded with the paint better. Not sure what to think at this point. Any ideas out there. I'm trying to figure out what all the excitement is over a coating that can't withstand a 24 hour water soak. You can coat a lure with Devcon and sink it for weeks with no ill effects. Your typical rapala, lucky craft, storm, or luhr jensen lure you could leave in the water a month and it would still be fine. I tip my hat to Dick for looking for a better coating but thus far this product has not demonstrated durability in water. Jed Edited December 3, 2010 by RiverMan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjbass Posted December 4, 2010 Report Share Posted December 4, 2010 Couldn't have said it better myself Jed and also I know that people like Jed and myself who can't wait the 12 to 14 days for a cure because of customer demand, can't try something like this until proven better. If it won't hold up to these simple tests, how will it possibly hold up to Musky teeth???? Nothing against Dick, just stating facts. Rod I'm trying to figure out what all the excitement is over a coating that can't withstand a 24 hour water soak. You can coat a lure with Devcon and sink it for weeks with no ill effects. Your typical rapala, lucky craft, storm, or luhr jensen lure you could leave in the water a month and it would still be fine. I tip my hat to Dick for looking for a better coating but thus far this product has not demonstrated durability in water. Jed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted December 4, 2010 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2010 I think having choices is the best of all worlds. Those who are more concerned about the user-friendliness of topcoats, or guys who paint with lacquers may be happy with the water borne DN2. Those for whom water resistance is paramount may want to stick with original moisture cured DN1 or something similar. Include me in the second group. All said and done, I want to build crankbaits that are at least as durable as the most durable commercial wood crankbaits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted December 4, 2010 Report Share Posted December 4, 2010 That's why they make so many flavors of ice cream. So everybody can get what they want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yardape Posted December 5, 2010 Report Share Posted December 5, 2010 Riverman I think all the excitement is about having choices and that we have a person like Dick who is a manufaturer that is interested enough to ask our opinions and take them to heart. The main problem with clearcoats and all the discussion on this site is that there is no such thing as the perfect clearcoat for every situation. I personally paint for customers as well as for myself, I have DN1 mastered, I have no problem with the storage issues, I also was chosen by Dick to test DN2 and it may work for many of the folks on here but not myself. I can't wait 12 days, I can usually turn a customers baits in a few days. We are all aware of Dick's procurement issues for DN1 so when he went to a new formula that obviously worked for his needs in his business, he could have stopped there but he didn't he is continuing to strive for a higher quality product and this is costing him a lot of money, in effect he is just like most of us, not settling for "good enough". My hat is off to him! I am really happy he has figured out a new DN1 formula that will satisfy my 1st step in my personal clearcoating procedure. KEEP ON ROCKIN DICK NITE and THANK YOU FROM ALL OF US!!!!!!!!!!! P.s. I NEED MORE DN1 ASAP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobv Posted December 5, 2010 Report Share Posted December 5, 2010 Count me in for both the new and the original. Thanks Dick! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiverMan Posted December 5, 2010 Report Share Posted December 5, 2010 Yardape, Lets not forget that TU is by design a platform for us lure builders to discuss various products and methods for building better lures. My comments have nothing to do with Dick personally, I am strictly commenting as a lure builder on the characteristics of DN2. Several years ago I tried a water based urethane and it behaved just as Bobv described DN2 in his test. After getting wet, it got soft, clouded, and was no longer impervious to water. Jed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dicknite Posted December 5, 2010 Report Share Posted December 5, 2010 Yardape, Lets not forget that TU is by design a platform for us lure builders to discuss various products and methods for building better lures. My comments have nothing to do with Dick personally, I am strictly commenting as a lure builder on the characteristics of DN2. Several years ago I tried a water based urethane and it behaved just as Bobv described DN2 in his test. After getting wet, it got soft, clouded, and was no longer impervious to water. Jed Just to clear the air a bit, I have been divorced twice, so it takes quite a bit to hurt my feelings. <grin> I really appreciate ALL the comments and help - nothing that is said here could do anything but make the process / product better! I too used the early water-born clears (along with GM, Ford, and a bunch more of us "early adopters") and absolutely HATED the performance. When I got this new (DN2) stuff going, I was really quite impressed with the difference between it and the original water based stuff - the dry-to-touch time was within ~12 hours, where that 1990's stuff was 3 - 5 days, the durability was fantastic in comparison (remember any GM / Ford products running around showing primer patches almost as big as the car?), and overall the user-friendliness was good. That being said, I think this whole process has really cememted in my mind that there really is not ONE good top-coat... Hence my attempt to bring out a selection that will more fully fill the needs of the tacklemakers our there. I really do appreciate ALL of your comments and help - if we keep discussing both the positive AND negative results obtained, we might just get this thing whipped! Thanks again guys! Dick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foulpole18 Posted December 5, 2010 Report Share Posted December 5, 2010 Just to clear the air a bit, I have been divorced twice, so it takes quite a bit to hurt my feelings. <grin> I really appreciate ALL the comments and help - nothing that is said here could do anything but make the process / product better! I too used the early water-born clears (along with GM, Ford, and a bunch more of us "early adopters") and absolutely HATED the performance. When I got this new (DN2) stuff going, I was really quite impressed with the difference between it and the original water based stuff - the dry-to-touch time was within ~12 hours, where that 1990's stuff was 3 - 5 days, the durability was fantastic in comparison (remember any GM / Ford products running around showing primer patches almost as big as the car?), and overall the user-friendliness was good. That being said, I think this whole process has really cememted in my mind that there really is not ONE good top-coat... Hence my attempt to bring out a selection that will more fully fill the needs of the tacklemakers our there. I really do appreciate ALL of your comments and help - if we keep discussing both the positive AND negative results obtained, we might just get this thing whipped! Thanks again guys! Dick I'd be interested in DN1 and DN2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiverMan Posted December 6, 2010 Report Share Posted December 6, 2010 (edited) Dick, I wish we had a coating that would do what epoxy does but in a safer version. The perfect clear coat: 1. Can be dipped or brushed 2. Non-toxic 3. Can be stored in any air tight container without loss of product 4. UV resistant, totally water resistant, and tough as epoxy 5. Water clear Have you ever considered looking at many of the UV cure epoxies? Because they react to UV they don't have many of the toxic additives. They also dry hard as a rock almost instantly when expoxed to UV light. I have experimented with several of them with limited success but I know the right product is out there. The only downside I see being the need to purchase what might be an expensive light. Jed Edited December 6, 2010 by RiverMan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted December 6, 2010 Report Share Posted December 6, 2010 Dick, I'm on exwife #3, so I can relate. But I have 5 great kids from them, so I'm not regretting any of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
