Let The Games Begin (contest)

[cadman]

Ok guys this game is going to test your visual acuity and also see if you know why certain things happen and for what reason(s). The contest will run from today October 10 2010 until November 27th 2010 at which time I will reveal the answers on Sunday November 28th, along with the winners to this contest. (BTW this has been approved by the site administrator). The guys with the correct answers will have their names put in a hat and my wife will draw 6 names. Those 6 names will be each be given a free Cadman’s #1 selling lure “ A 3/8 oz. Punkin’ Seed Poison Tail Jig” This jig is guaranteed to catch you a fish. (I guarantee it) If you can not catch a fish with this jig well I just don’t know what to say, however you can not send it back. So let the fun and games begin to liven up the TU Jig making Forum.

You will see above (2) Lee IV bottom pour pots. A new one on the left and an older one on the right. Here are the two questions, and you must get both correct to win:

#1 What one difference do you see in the two pots other than one is rectangular and the other is not, the cords are on different sides of the housing or 1 is taller than the other ?

#2 With the difference you found (if it is correct) why would (or did) one pot have it and the other not, and what difference would that item you found do for one pot and not for the other.

Please note:

A. The results are final and I(Cadman) am the final say so in the matter. Guys although the questions and answers are legitimate and correct, this is only a game so don’t get mad and shoot the messenger.

B. Due to shipping costs, this contest is only applicable to the U.S.A., however if you want to participate in the contest you are more than welcome to play.

Below is the sure fish catching jig which some of you will receive if you guess the correct answers to this contest.

Edited October 10, 2010 by cadman

[cadman]

Contestants,

The pics of the pots is below the jig not above as stated in Post #1. Click on the pot thumbnail to see a larger picture.

Edited October 10, 2010 by cadman

[reeves]

The first obvious difference is the holes in the electrical case in the pot on the right.

Just a WAG, but I would say the pot on the right is a newer (a running change made by the manufacturer) one than the one on the left. The holes are there to allow heat buildup to escape and keep the wiring from deteriorating and eventually causing a fire.

My pots are RCBS, so these are totally unfamiliar to me.

George

[Vodkaman]

The old pot on the right has a spacer fitted under the lid.

The plunger was replaced because of the dripping problem. Unfortunately the original size plunger was no longer in production and the replacement plunger was slightly longer. The spacer makes up the difference, allowing the plunger to seat correctly.

Dave

[Basseducer]

I would agree with Reeves, the holes are there for ventilation so heat can escape.

[Fatman]

Ok here's mine:

#1 I actually see 2 things. The pot on the right based on the edge look has had the pot assembly replaced and only because I know LEE pots the one on the left has a 4” clearance under the pour spout.

#2 The clearance difference allows you to fit ALMOST all sizes of bullet molds and most sinker molds under the pour spout.

Fatman

[Fatman]

Forgot one part - the one on the right is 110 volt the one on the left is 220 volt and is called the Export Model

Ok here's mine:

#1 I actually see 2 things. The pot on the right based on the edge look has had the pot assembly replaced and only because I know LEE pots the one on the left has a 4” clearance under the pour spout.

#2 The clearance difference allows you to fit ALMOST all sizes of bullet molds and most sinker molds under the pour spout.

Fatman

[JSC]

After checking it all out . ( I have one of each .. have not used the new model got it back when I sent one back in for repairs)

-- Both of mine or 110 V.

The "tower" is different in design .. base sits higher, cords come out at different points .. A big difference is the longer nozzele on the new one ... as far as the rest of it goes there is only 16ths different in clearance and etc.

JSC

[tailchaser]

1. I would say the one on the left is the nexew one, aside from the obvious height difference i would say the Holes one the older one. they probably had holes on the older one because the housing was made of sheetmetal instead of aluminum (like the new one) and had to be vented, on the new model it is how made of aluminum and does not heat up as much..... ok i guess this is 1 & 2..

Edited October 18, 2010 by tailchaser

[cadman]

You all probably thought I forgot as I have not replied. Nope didn't forget, Just didn't want to get involved in a conversation that would give it away. Well I see a wide variety of answers. Very interesting. It won't be long now guys so hold on and the info will be revealed soon.

[Fatman]

Tease LOL

[cadman]

All right guys "Showtime".

As mentioned in my first post the new pot is on the left and the old pot is on the right. So what are the differences.

The answers I was looking for were.

Question #1. On the pot on the right (the older Lee pot) there are 3 (3/8” diameter) holes on the back of the pot not found on the newer pot on the left.

Question #2. The reason for these holes were to vent or let the heat in the thermostat chamber escape. This in turn #1 kept the pot hotter because the thermostat sensed cooler temperature in the chamber, which made it think that it needed more heat and/or #2 cooled the wires on the inside.

The 2 members closest to these answers were Reeves and Basseducer, followed by tailchaser. Since there were so few entries, I will send a jig out to everyone who participated. I will contact you shortly for your full name and address via PM, or if you like you can PM me with your info. Also I will have all of the jigs sent out in a couple of weeks right around Christmas.

Thanx to all who participated in the contest.

Edited November 29, 2010 by cadman

[cadman]

So this brings me to the reason what was the point of all of this.

Here it goes.

I have had my old Lee IV Pot (L4P) since 2005 until it stopped working about 1 month ago. It was and is a workhorse, in which I have poured 1000’s of jigs and spinnerbaits. Through the years about a year ago I bought a new L4P, so just in case my old one would go out I would have a spare. So finally when my old pot went out I emptied all the lead out and put it in my brand new L4P. Started it up and away I went………..Going nowhere fast. My new L4P for some reason was not working as well as my old one. I cranked it up all the way and it was better, but I was getting freeze up at the nozzle when I was injecting my lead molds which I never had problems before. After about a week of this, I was pretty disappointed with this new L4P. I called up Lee and told them my old L4P was on its way for repairs and to please fix it as this new one was a piece of $$$$ and I was very unhappy with it. I asked them to help me with a solution to my problem on the new L4P and why the old L4P was so much better and seemed to run hotter than the new one. Here is their reply.

On the older units all of them had holes on the back to vent the t-stat and to get more air in the t-stat chamber. With the holes in the back of the box, this made the t-stat think that it needed more heat to heat the pot, because the heat was escaping, thus making the pot run hotter and kept the lead and the spout hotter.

So I ask why change a good proven design when it works.

Well somehow UL got involved and you can not have any big holes in a compartment, that people can stick a small screwdriver in and possibly get electrocuted. Why in god’s name would anybody stick a screwdriver in there?????? So they had to take the holes out. Although the heating element is the same as before and gives out the same heat, I personally do not believe the new ones are as good as the old ones. With no cool air circulating through the box, the heat temp stays the same but it doesn’t cycle more as if it would if there was more air flow or if the trapped heat inside had a place to escape. Now this is just my take on it, I don’t make these pots and based on t-stats this is what they are made to do.

So what to do to bring old technology back to the modern product. I spoke to a Lee rep, and he said you can loosen one of the screws on the top plate and lift the nameplate up a little and stick a piece of toothpick between the name plate and the pot body. This will give the chamber some air and might improve pot heat performance.

I on the other hand (Please do not do this at home, as this will void your warranty and Lee may not take your pot back and you may get hurt) am going to dissemble the new pot take out the guts, drill (3) holes on the back of the box similar to the old model and then re-assemble it. This should give me what I’m after. I have not done this yet. If this doesn’t work, I am going to upgrade to a RCBS production pot. All this info posted here is of my own making and based on questions I’ve asked around. If you do not know what you are doing do not attempt to fix anything, as you can get severely injured. I’d like any and all comments you guys have good and bad and hope this was somewhat informative……………………...Cadman

Edited November 29, 2010 by cadman

[JBlaze]

So this brings me to the reason what was the point of all of this.

Here it goes.

I have had my old Lee IV Pot (L4P) since 2005 until it stopped working about 1 month ago. It was and is a workhorse, in which I have poured 1000’s of jigs and spinnerbaits. Through the years about a year ago I bought a new L4P, so just in case my old one would go out I would have a spare. So finally when my old pot went out I emptied all the lead out and put it in my brand new L4P. Started it up and away I went………..Going nowhere fast. My new L4P for some reason was not working as well as my old one. I cranked it up all the way and it was better, but I was getting freeze up at the nozzle when I was injecting my lead molds which I never had problems before. After about a week of this, I was pretty disappointed with this new L4P. I called up Lee and told them my old L4P was on its way for repairs and to please fix it as this new one was a piece of $$$$ and I was very unhappy with it. I asked them to help me with a solution to my problem on the new L4P and why the old L4P was so much better and seemed to run hotter than the new one. Here is their reply.

On the older units all of them had holes on the back to vent the t-stat and to get more air in the t-stat chamber. With the holes in the back of the box, this made the t-stat think that it needed more heat to heat the pot, because the heat was escaping, thus making the pot run hotter and kept the lead and the spout hotter.

So I ask why change a good proven design when it works.

Well somehow UL got involved and you can not have any big holes in a compartment, that people can stick a small screwdriver in and possibly get electrocuted. Why in god’s name would anybody stick a screwdriver in there?????? So they had to take the holes out. Although the heating element is the same as before and gives out the same heat, I personally do not believe the new ones are as good as the old ones. With no cool air circulating through the box, the heat temp stays the same but it doesn’t cycle more as if it would if there was more air flow or if the trapped heat inside had a place to escape. Now this is just my take on it, I don’t make these pots and based on t-stats this is what they are made to do.

So what to do to bring old technology back to the modern product. I spoke to a Lee rep, and he said you can loosen one of the screws on the top plate and lift the nameplate up a little and stick a piece of toothpick between the name plate and the pot body. This will give the chamber some air and might improve pot heat performance.

I on the other hand (Please do not do this at home, as this will void your warranty and Lee may not take your pot back and you may get hurt) am going to dissemble the new pot take out the guts, drill (3) holes on the back of the box similar to the old model and then re-assemble it. This should give me what I’m after. I have not done this yet. If this doesn’t work, I am going to upgrade to a RCBS production pot. All this info posted here is of my own making and based on questions I’ve asked around. If you do not know what you are doing do not attempt to fix anything, as you can get severely injured. I’d like any and all comments you guys have good and bad and hope this was somewhat informative……………………...Cadman

This was a very informative post and the info is appreciated very much. I have an old Lee Pot like yours and a new one for a backup should the old one ever fail. That has not happened as of yet. Now, should I ever have to use it, I will know what to do to it should its performance disappoint me as yours did you. Thanks for that.

I studied both my pots and had no idea what the answers were so, I did not participate in the contest. Again, thanks for doing this one and by the way, beautiful jig. John

[mark poulson]

I don't pour lead, so I didn't make a comment initially, but I concur. Beautiful jig.

If I lost one like that I'd be heartbroken.

[Vodkaman]

Great post. Makes perfect sense. I share your dismay regarding the screw driver issue, it is all a bit O.T.T.

I didn't mention the vent holes, though it too obvious, but then I am not known for keeping things simple. Keep a jig for me, I will pick it up when I come over to the US to visit Y'all.

Dave

[BLT]

Not trying to sway you one way or the other, but I LOVE my RCBS pot. When it dies, I will get another for sure, even if the cost is a lot more than the Lees.

I had an old Lynman pot that I just sold. Not sure how old it was, but the word VERY comes to mind lol. It had a slide rack to hold your mold while pouring. More of a pain if you ask me, but my friend at work loves it.

[cadman]

Not trying to sway you one way or the other, but I LOVE my RCBS pot. When it dies, I will get another for sure, even if the cost is a lot more than the Lees.

I had an old Lynman pot that I just sold. Not sure how old it was, but the word VERY comes to mind lol. It had a slide rack to hold your mold while pouring. More of a pain if you ask me, but my friend at work loves it.

You don't have to sway my decision very far. I am seriously considering buying an RCBS with all the pouring I do. I know they are pricey, but everyone that I have spoken to has nothing but good things to say about them. I don't have a problem paying good money for a good product. Thanks for another vote for the RCBS pot.

[tailchaser]

You don't have to sway my decision very far. I am seriously considering buying an RCBS with all the pouring I do. I know they are pricey, but everyone that I have spoken to has nothing but good things to say about them. I don't have a problem paying good money for a good product. Thanks for another vote for the RCBS pot.

ok, this question will prove my ignorance, but here goes...

I use a LEE pot like shown here... what does RCBS stand for? i am looking to upgrade also...

[cadman]

ok, this question will prove my ignorance, but here goes...

I use a LEE pot like shown here... what does RCBS stand for? i am looking to upgrade also...

Don't ask me what it means but it stands for "Rock Chuck Bullet Swage" ammunition reloading company. The model most people get I believe is the 81100 for 120 volt and the 81200 for 240 volt. Look around for prices as they are all over the board. I have found them as low as $350.00 brand new. Below is a link of what it looks like.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=209097

[tailchaser]

Don't ask me what it means but it stands for "Rock Chuck Bullet Swage" ammunition reloading company. The model most people get I believe is the 81100 for 120 volt and the 81200 for 240 volt. Look around for prices as they are all over the board. I have found them as low as $350.00 brand new. Below is a link of what it looks like.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=209097

thanks, i did a search and found them, i thought the rcbs was shorthand for something everyone else knew...

[Fatman]

I read this yesterday at work and I had to wait until I got home to pull the pots to look at them, now I have 2 pots that look like the one on the right in the photo, except neither one of mine has holes in the back!!!!!!!!!!

The first one I got in 1984 and the second one in 1987, now I know you pour WAY more than me but that's the first time I've seen that style melter with holes in the back so thanks for all the info.

I've seen the RCBS pots and they are sweet although they do cost a bit, but with as much as you pour it should pay itself off over a shorter period of time. You'll see them on ebay once in a while but not often.

As others have said Midwayusa carries them and they're $354.99 right now (RCBS on their site list's them at $453, you'd save about a $100). Good luck on your decision.

I'll pm my address, thanks for a great contest and MOST OF ALL all the help you provide us, even casting for 30+ years I've learned alot of better ways of doing things.

Thanks,

Fatman

[GCD]

I on the other hand (Please do not do this at home, as this will void your warranty and Lee may not take your pot back and you may get hurt) am going to dissemble the new pot take out the guts, drill (3) holes on the back of the box similar to the old model and then re-assemble it. This should give me what I’m after. I have not done this yet. If this doesn’t work, I am going to upgrade to a RCBS production pot. All this info posted here is of my own making and based on questions I’ve asked around. If you do not know what you are doing do not attempt to fix anything, as you can get severely injured. I’d like any and all comments you guys have good and bad and hope this was somewhat informative……………………...Cadman

Why not use a smaller 1/16 drill bit and make a mesh panel on the back? You'll have to drill more holes, but it will keep out dust and debris better... and you won't have to worry about somebody sticking something through the holes (a kid).

If your lead has a high antimony content, you'll have to turn the heat up higher. I use a "hardball" ballistic grade lead with 6% antimony and have to turn my Lee pot all the way up to get a good pour, if I use pure lead I can get away with a #6 or 7 setting.

[cadman]

Why not use a smaller 1/16 drill bit and make a mesh panel on the back? You'll have to drill more holes, but it will keep out dust and debris better... and you won't have to worry about somebody sticking something through the holes (a kid).

If your lead has a high antimony content, you'll have to turn the heat up higher. I use a "hardball" ballistic grade lead with 6% antimony and have to turn my Lee pot all the way up to get a good pour, if I use pure lead I can get away with a #6 or 7 setting.

The only thing I'm pointing out here is that there is no reason why the manufacturer had to eliminate the holes on the back of the pot. By doing this they really changed the pots operating temperature. Also #1 there shouldn't be any kids pouring lead without any adult supervision, and #2 if they are dumb enough to stick things in electrical compartments, well than you can blame the parents for not teaching and watching their children. I hate to rant on this, but why do we have to dumb everything down?????? I drilled (3) holes in the back of the new pot and it does run hotter than it did before I did this. That's the way my old pot was and now it works just fine.

[cadman]

To all of those who participated before the deadline, I have contacted you and your jigs will be sent out tomorrow.

Thanks and Enjoy