hoffbossn Posted December 7, 2016 Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 First and foremost thank you all at TU that have helped me on this journey so far. This may be quite the read so ill try and put important stuff in the beginning. Thank you for any answer given as any wisdom shared here is greatly used and appreciated. So for starters I started a thread asking where to buy good lure parts. I know about jans and LPO and these sites are not as sufficient for me as i need SWIMBAIT making material. I want screw eyes that are at least twice as thick as the ones from LPO. similer to the screw eyes in the MS SLAMMER. these are very thick and industrial looking, where can I get these? next whats a good wood to practice on, The wake bait i made was out of a blank and I tried cutting a "v" joint and the cut was ATROCIOUS with my band saw, anyone have advice on how to make a straight even cut on each side? I have a ton of tools you name it i got it... theres gotta be one for the right job here somewhere.. On that note what are the best sources for swimbait hardware?? ive scoured jans and LPO and am not at all satisfied. On the note of split rings oval or circular why?? Does anyone know the type of wood on the MS slammer? are water based paints good for painting lure? (picking up airbrush soon or i would just experiment.) How can i evenly make a good carving? the carving i made is good but uneven, this balsa wood i am working with is very brittle and chips off easily. theres a box of basswood at a local shop $27.00 for 10lbs. is this a good deal? can anyone link me to some good reads about making molds out of these lures? read a ton still not grasping the concept. Thank you all for the responses once I have something a little more finished ill post some pics... If you have gotten this far i thank you for ever taking your time to read and if you have anyhting to contribute to help me feel free! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassinfool Posted December 7, 2016 Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 Check out some of these videos done by Marling Baits on YouTube. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCa-xsrfvLmgaUfPFE1TK7OQ/videos I don't work with wood so unfortunately I don't have much to contribute myself. For the O rings, the circle o rings will be used on the hook hangers. The oval o ring is used for the line tie. It keeps the knot from getting in the middle of the split ring and rubbing; I don't know what kind of utility this has on a big swimbait as I have never thrown them. Best of luck! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglinarcher Posted December 7, 2016 Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 Welcome to the most rewarding hobby, and most frustrating hobby, in existence. First, I am sure you will get a lot of differing answers out there. There is no one answer to your questions. 1) You might need to search out hardware suppliers if you are not finding the screw eyes you want. Just do your best internet search and good luck. 2) Cutting V joints are a matter of your own skill level. Depending on the size of the lure, I have done well with band saws, properly set up and done with a jig, but I cannot free hand the joint. I can only suggest practice on this...... there is no easy solution. 3) Oval split rings keep the know from getting caught in the gap and cutting off. Round split rings work great with attaching hooks. Best I can tell you. 4) Water based paints are fine for painting lures. They get a clear coat that is water proof so most of us use water based paints in our air brushes. 5) Carving is a talent and as such not everyone can do it well. I CANNOT DO IT WELL. What I do is make lots of templets, keep fitting the templets to the carved piece, remove a little at a time, until I get it even. Again, practice, practice, practice. 6) Basswood is great, but it is not a cure all. Prices are subject to what is available to you. 7) http://www.makelure.com/store/pg/54-How-To-Videos.aspx This is a good source to learn how to make molds, and lots of other things. Alumilite tries to teach you all you need to know and it is actually very simple. Hope this helps, good luck, and HAVE FUN. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoffbossn Posted December 8, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2016 ill post what i have in a while... does anyone know what tool best works with balsa? It either chisels, or has to be sanded or splinters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted December 8, 2016 Report Share Posted December 8, 2016 (edited) To me, the wood you choose depends on the type of bait you're making. Balsa is great for shallow running baits if you want them to be very buoyant and lively. Cedar is heavier but still lighter than basswood, which is the heaviest wood I use for baits. You want to cut lip slots and joints while the bait is still "square", just after you cut the basic blank shape out of the plank of wood. Then it helps to keep the bait symmetrical if you mark off the tapers for the front and rear of the bait, and lines for the limits of where you want to round over the edges. You need to plan out your work steps according to the tools and the methods you have available for the job. As far as woodworking goes, baits are very small projects but they require a lot of exactness if you want a good finished product. It may be tedious to do all the marking but it pays dividends in the final results. I use a Murphy woodcarving knife to take off most of the material when rounding a bait, followed by hand sanding to final shape. A Dremel tool with a cylinder sanding disk is also useful in sanding. It takes some practice to get the hang of building baits, to learn where you have to pay attention and where you can sort of motor along without much thought. When starting out I think the best advice is to take it slow. You can always remove more material but once it is removed, you can't put it back. I never considered using a chisel, it's too much tool for the fine work needed. Edited December 8, 2016 by BobP 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trav Posted December 8, 2016 Report Share Posted December 8, 2016 I can only help you with a few of your questions, but like all replies, its going to be a matter of opinion. Theres a lot of knowledge in this forum. 1. Screw eyes. For bigger swimbaits, from 6 inches and bigger, I use these. I get them in the 0.072 size. http://www.jannsnetcraft.com/plug-screweyes-screws/307931.aspx 2. Wood. If you are making a bait that's meant to float, or you want a softer wood to practice on, I would start with basswood or tupelo wood. Tupelo is soft and doesn't spling like basswood does at times. If the bait you are making is meant to sink, Ive found that either soft maple(still pretty hard) or a species of cedar work best, for me. Cedar has a natural ability to repel water, but still needs to be sealed with superglue or epoxy, its not completely waterproof. If you choose cedar, please do yourself a favor and wear a respirator when you are sanding. The natural water repelling traits of this wood will mess up your lungs if breathed in. Never experienced it first hand, but horror stories are enough for me to not wanna find out for myself. 3. Cutting joints. I've found that having you line drawn on the block of wood, while its still square and not rounded yet, helps a lot on cutting joints. Its possible to do with a bandsaw, but my personal bandsaw "drifts" and a few times Ive had to start over after making the first cut. I use a simple, cheap pull saw from Home Depot or Lowes. The blade is super sharp, thin, and flimsy which makes it very easy to control the cut for me. Also, I make a habit of always having a center line drawn on the bait. After every cut, or every time some part is sanded, I take my time making sure that there is a line going the whole length of the bait. Again, this is all from MY personal experiences. Use the search function, seriously. It goes back years and before you know it, you've been reading for hours. One thing I can recommend, is keep this hobby fun. Make sure you take your time and don't get stressed out about a little cut or anything like that, its only wood, and you will learn something new after every project. Sorry for the long post. Hope this helps you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonister Posted December 8, 2016 Report Share Posted December 8, 2016 Taking your time is a great idea! Don't set time limits on yourself. I like to keep my lure making to one project at a time, but that's just personal preference. Sometimes i have been know to put down one carving and start another for a bit. If you don't feel like working on your lure, then don't. I know from experience that when i force myself to make a lure, I get worn out and mess up. If you feel like taking a day, or week, or month long break, don't beat yourself up over it. As for molding lures, i have yet to do that on bass lures.. I still feel i need more practice and once i get that perfect master i might make a mold. Mold making can be very fun with the right tools and practice. As stated above definitely give Makelure.com a look or two. That being said, the only way to get good at carving is to carve. I carve with a Stanley knife. They are cheap and have replaceable blades. Always remember to use fresh blades and keep them sharp. Another thing i do is i try new techniques on just about every lure i do. Learning knew skills will greatly help you. Trust me when i say it will start to show if you really focus on one new technique every lure. Carving wood is personal preference but i use just about anything. Balsa is horrible to carve detail in, but i like it for shallow crank baits. Cedar is good for glide baits but it tends to have a definite grain and can make scales a pita to carve. I haven't used basswood in a while but it is pretty good. It has minimal grain and is heavy. Oak/maple is extra heavy and does make good sinking baits but if your looking to make a 12" bait i hope you have a extra extra heavy swimbait setup, and plan on taking a very long painful time carving it. (Get soft maple, not hard ) I have never used tupelo but next time I order some lure supplies it will be on the list. I have also used white pine, but that i would put with cedar. Juniper carves OK and smells good but that is also up there with oak and maple. The one perfect carving wood with absolutely zero grain i would recommenced though is PVC. Ok, not wood, but it is amazing. As far as Im concerned it carves totally different than any wood, but it is fun stuff and doesn't have to be sealed. I still prefer true wood over it though. Im not sure why though, maybe its the nostalgia. At the top of the forum page you can find a topic pinned that talks all about PVC. Mark is the guy to go to for more info on it. You mentioned screw eyes. I have not been able to find anything with long threads bigger than the ones on LPO. Home depot has some nice big ones but they are short. If you have a MS slammer or something of the sort you could try unscrewing one to see how long it is. I actually asked around a while ago but couldn't find those big screw eyes. If you find them let us know! Sorry for the long read but i am very passionate when it comes to wood and carving Just remember to take your time and keep it fun! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoffbossn Posted December 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2016 15 hours ago, jonister said: Taking your time is a great idea! Don't set time limits on yourself. I like to keep my lure making to one project at a time, but that's just personal preference. Sometimes i have been know to put down one carving and start another for a bit. If you don't feel like working on your lure, then don't. I know from experience that when i force myself to make a lure, I get worn out and mess up. If you feel like taking a day, or week, or month long break, don't beat yourself up over it. As for molding lures, i have yet to do that on bass lures.. I still feel i need more practice and once i get that perfect master i might make a mold. Mold making can be very fun with the right tools and practice. As stated above definitely give Makelure.com a look or two. That being said, the only way to get good at carving is to carve. I carve with a Stanley knife. They are cheap and have replaceable blades. Always remember to use fresh blades and keep them sharp. Another thing i do is i try new techniques on just about every lure i do. Learning knew skills will greatly help you. Trust me when i say it will start to show if you really focus on one new technique every lure. Carving wood is personal preference but i use just about anything. Balsa is horrible to carve detail in, but i like it for shallow crank baits. Cedar is good for glide baits but it tends to have a definite grain and can make scales a pita to carve. I haven't used basswood in a while but it is pretty good. It has minimal grain and is heavy. Oak/maple is extra heavy and does make good sinking baits but if your looking to make a 12" bait i hope you have a extra extra heavy swimbait setup, and plan on taking a very long painful time carving it. (Get soft maple, not hard ) I have never used tupelo but next time I order some lure supplies it will be on the list. I have also used white pine, but that i would put with cedar. Juniper carves OK and smells good but that is also up there with oak and maple. The one perfect carving wood with absolutely zero grain i would recommenced though is PVC. Ok, not wood, but it is amazing. As far as Im concerned it carves totally different than any wood, but it is fun stuff and doesn't have to be sealed. I still prefer true wood over it though. Im not sure why though, maybe its the nostalgia. At the top of the forum page you can find a topic pinned that talks all about PVC. Mark is the guy to go to for more info on it. You mentioned screw eyes. I have not been able to find anything with long threads bigger than the ones on LPO. Home depot has some nice big ones but they are short. If you have a MS slammer or something of the sort you could try unscrewing one to see how long it is. I actually asked around a while ago but couldn't find those big screw eyes. If you find them let us know! Sorry for the long read but i am very passionate when it comes to wood and carving Just remember to take your time and keep it fun! Thank you this read was great... whats a good bang for the buck carving knife on amazon anyone can link? and I am to maybe go to the home depot later today to check on those screw eyes. Yes i got a good setup. dobyns mag heavy... its broom stick.. Thanks guys.. gonna post a pic here of my little shop setup... really wanna catch a fish on my lure... HECK i really wanna make a lure first!I made one out of a blank and just screwed in some hardwware turned out not bad... carved a block of balsa... looks like a radiated baby okra.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gliders Posted December 9, 2016 Report Share Posted December 9, 2016 There's a good tutorial on wood carving symmetry by lincoya in member submitted tutorials. Though not a swimbait you might find it useful. You can make templates for material to be removed from all sides, top and bottom. Personally , if I'm carving baits I use a chisel ,then a few strokes with a file,i try to do as little sanding as possible and literally sand a big lure for maybe 30 seconds. Everyone has there own method ,i like the rigidity and accuracy of a chisel and hold lure in other hand ,probably not recommended as one slip and it can be trouble . I've used chisels this way for long time ,yet just recently got blase making a quick prototype, one small slip and into the bone ! Ouch. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoffbossn Posted December 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2016 44 minutes ago, gliders said: There's a good tutorial on wood carving symmetry by lincoya in member submitted tutorials. Though not a swimbait you might find it useful. You can make templates for material to be removed from all sides, top and bottom. Personally , if I'm carving baits I use a chisel ,then a few strokes with a file,i try to do as little sanding as possible and literally sand a big lure for maybe 30 seconds. Everyone has there own method ,i like the rigidity and accuracy of a chisel and hold lure in other hand ,probably not recommended as one slip and it can be trouble . I've used chisels this way for long time ,yet just recently got blase making a quick prototype, one small slip and into the bone ! Ouch. no joke here man got this cheap japanese carving kit for $10 and it is SHARP i am not looking to PVC or clay if i cant figure out how to get my artistic side to shine here. was getting into this to be afun theraputic hobby but i think this hobby has a different idea for me! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travis Posted December 9, 2016 Report Share Posted December 9, 2016 Flexcut is hard to beat in my opinion in regards to price/quality when it comes to carving knifes for lure making. A good strop and compound and good to go for a very long time. I like the handle shape as find it comfortable. Have looked at some of the Hock blades and make my own handles but haven't done that yet. I have use various other knives at times in the similar price range of the Flexcut and were fine also but currently of the 5 or 6 knives all are Flexcut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted December 10, 2016 Report Share Posted December 10, 2016 Speaking of knives, I got a Murpy knife a few years ago and it's all I've ever needed for rounding over baits. They come razor sharp and the cost is very reasonable. Sold on wood carving sites or direct from the company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travis Posted December 10, 2016 Report Share Posted December 10, 2016 Carving knife is always a good thing to have. If only roughing rounding blanks then one knife definitely all you need. Can do a lot of stuff with one knife just specialty knives make things a lot easier for detail for example. I use my roughing knife and mini pelican flexcut the most of the knives I have. Their detail knife gets a lot of use also. Definitely don't need a lot for lures especially if just rounding over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonister Posted December 11, 2016 Report Share Posted December 11, 2016 I FOUND THEM!!! Don't bother at Home Depot, at least not the one by me. I hit up Lowe's for the first time and didn't regret the drive. It also was a mile closer I think these will have a long enough shank for bass at least. they are zinc, or zinc coated but I couldn't find stainless so I think they will hold up fine in fresh water. 8:40$ for both Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted December 11, 2016 Report Share Posted December 11, 2016 I've found, in building jointed baits, the real strain on the hinges comes from the swimming action of the bait itself. The constant impact of the sections hitting each other when a bait is swimming, and the force generated when the bait hits the water on a cast, are what really tests a hinge system. Heavier bait sections need stronger hinge links. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonister Posted December 11, 2016 Report Share Posted December 11, 2016 Mark true story I just noticed someone else found the eyes too. haha well I felt origina. lol I'm thinking because they are zinc they will not only repel rust but also act as my sacrificial piece, kinda like zinc anodes on an outboard. in all honesty I had to use a vice and some monster plumbing pliers to get these things open so I think they will hold up just fine. I wouldn't recommend trying to open/close them free hand though. that almost got bloody. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoffbossn Posted December 13, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 13, 2016 Thanks all. I will be trying to carve with basswood feels alot easier so far and got a xacto carving knife that so far works good. This has been a very humbling process. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted December 13, 2016 Report Share Posted December 13, 2016 Take your time, be sure you have a sharp blade, and remember, sand paper is your friend. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoffbossn Posted December 13, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 13, 2016 2 hours ago, mark poulson said: Take your time, be sure you have a sharp blade, and remember, sand paper is your friend. thanks mark, I need to start giving you co-pays, you keep me more sane then my therapist does. So i ordered some wake bait lathed blanks from LPO gonna just see if I can atleast manage to hardware the bait correctly... any difference between a lathed piece compared to a dowel piece? I think i willlmake a mieter box to get the good angle i need to cut for my V joint. buying a airbrush tonight! where can i get Big lexa lips? also looking for a tail piece similer to the MS slammer... But obviously not the exact one... I mean maybe but I wanna try and find a different one first.. Maybe a good little mold project i can try and make my own mold for it... LMK.. thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoffbossn Posted December 13, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 13, 2016 also I see people seal their lure before cutting hardware.. is this preferred? and when i mean seal i mean submerging the whole lure in the yellow deck sealer stuff. is this preferred or is brushing on epoxy the way to go? THANKS! and what seal/epoxy is preferred? i searched could find nothing on sealer VS epoxy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonister Posted December 14, 2016 Report Share Posted December 14, 2016 Sealer is really personal preference. Sealer can be many things, epoxy, moisture cured eurethane, resin, super glue. There are endless subjects on it. My method for sealing smaller lures is super glue. Sometimes I seal with KBS but my problem with that is that it must cure fully otherwise paint can bubble it. I prefer a two part epoxy on bigger lures because I have more application time and can make sure to get it all covered. A tip on the lexan, go to ace or a local hardware store. They sell it in sheets. You can make a template or print off shapes and cut it with a exacto or a band saw/ deemed. Get Lexan Polycarbonate though, not the acrylic. I made that mistake and now have a box of broken lipped lures. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoffbossn Posted December 14, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 14, 2016 12 hours ago, jonister said: Sealer is really personal preference. Sealer can be many things, epoxy, moisture cured eurethane, resin, super glue. There are endless subjects on it. My method for sealing smaller lures is super glue. Sometimes I seal with KBS but my problem with that is that it must cure fully otherwise paint can bubble it. I prefer a two part epoxy on bigger lures because I have more application time and can make sure to get it all covered. A tip on the lexan, go to ace or a local hardware store. They sell it in sheets. You can make a template or print off shapes and cut it with a exacto or a band saw/ deemed. Get Lexan Polycarbonate though, not the acrylic. I made that mistake and now have a box of broken lipped lures. thank you! now i am wondering what the best sealer is... do you seal a lure before drilling for hardware? after? or during? Im still doing my due diligence just trying to get a lure made THIS WEEK! i also know to fill all the hardware holes with epoxy but do i seal them with the sealent before i do this? thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted December 14, 2016 Report Share Posted December 14, 2016 (edited) If I'm making a balsa bait, I drill for all the hardware, and then seal with super glue, because it soaks into the wood in the hardware holes and makes it stronger without adding a lot of weight. When I used to make jointed baits out of poplar, I struggled to find a sealer that was "bulletproof". That's why, when JR Hopkins suggested I try Azek PVC, I jumped on it, and haven't gone back to wood since, except for the occasional balsa bait. I'd suggest you think about using PVC for building. You never have to worry about sealing it, because it is totally waterproof, and the Azek Trimboard is almost as buoyant as med. strength balsa. Edited December 14, 2016 by mark poulson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travis Posted December 14, 2016 Report Share Posted December 14, 2016 (edited) I would recommend PVC for a swim bait also (about the only time I will use it). It takes a lot of the the difficult issues out of the equation and will let you focus on the bait, not construction methods. Edited December 14, 2016 by Travis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gliders Posted December 15, 2016 Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 Having not tried p.v.c travis, got to ask why you wouldn't use it for other lure styles? .......glider 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
