Tiderunner Posted February 2 Report Share Posted February 2 Got my dual injector from FGF, and gave it its first real workout last night. Kept it simple. Black and blue senkos using 2 Yamomoto cnc molds. Heated molds and injectors. Injected at around 300*-310*. First mold injected fine. econd mold was either half filled or dents in the baits. The plastic was cooling too quickly. The plastic was forming a seal over the nozzles. My first trial with the dual injector my plastic was too hot, and the colors bled into one another. Now it seems the temps are too low. What temps do you guys shoot dual injected baits at? NOTE_ The plastic I was using was all remelts. Figure I'd use my old discs before using virgin plastic while I'm getting the hang of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Young Posted February 2 Report Share Posted February 2 (edited) Most say heat to 350 & let cool to 320 to 330. After making soft plastics for years now i pretty much just heat mine & check to see that the two different colors are the same consistency & usually don't have a problem. I know from experience if i've got it to hot. Edited February 2 by Les Young Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apdriver Posted February 3 Report Share Posted February 3 You should be fine at those temps. Be sure to pre heat your injectors and the blending block. I haven’t seen FGF version but my BT dual injector has a blending block that has long runners and the diameter of those runners are small. A lot of potential to freeze prematurely if not preheated. I use a propane torch with igniter. Easy peasy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNC Molds N Stuff Posted February 3 Report Share Posted February 3 (edited) 10 hours ago, Apdriver said: You should be fine at those temps. Be sure to pre heat your injectors and the blending block. I haven’t seen FGF version but my BT dual injector has a blending block that has long runners and the diameter of those runners are small. A lot of potential to freeze prematurely if not preheated. I use a propane torch with igniter. Easy peasy. Yep. What he said. Generally if the two plastics are very similar in composition you can go by temperature. The lowest same temperature that shoots okay will usually give the best demarcation between the layers in molds that don't blend them by their nature like those with big hook slots. However, the color amount, powders, salt volume can affect the viscosity at a particular temperature. This is where a little more experience can pay off. They need to be close to the same "viscosity" near the lowest temperature where they shoot properly. I see temperature hyped as the be all end all on the social media groups all the time, and I have just gotten tired of correcting it. Here are others I see almost every single time I read the groups. (These are generally correct, but not always.) Reduce flashing? Shoot colder, hold less pressure. Won't fill? Shoot hotter, shoot slow. Denting, shoot colder hold firm pressure longer. Combination of problems... experiment. Edited February 3 by CNC Molds N Stuff 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiderunner Posted February 4 Author Report Share Posted February 4 Everything you folks responded with is what I've been doing. Experience I have. Been shooting my own stuff nearly 30 years. This is my first attempt with my dual injector. Up until now I've either use commercially made laminate plates, or made my own from heavy aluminum flashing. Wanted to leave that behind and speed the process up. I think my biggest issue is my plastic cooling too fast. There are those, for lack of a better word, condoms that form over the nozzles. They cool and prevent the plastic from shooting. Too much pressure and I make a mess. Nozzles are hot enough, so then its got to be my plastic temps. Viscosity to me is everything. After I get to temps, no matter what or how I'm injecting, I check viscosity first.And yes, salt or glass beads make a difference. Plastic and additives too. These really had an effect when I first started shooting core shot baits. I guess just as I had a learning curve with core shot baits, there's going to be a learning curve with the dual injectors. Sooner or later I'll get the feel of it. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNC Molds N Stuff Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 Just so you know. It's very unlikely you will ever get a sharp demarcation like using a laminate plate and shooting twice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 3 hours ago, Tiderunner said: Everything you folks responded with is what I've been doing. Experience I have. Been shooting my own stuff nearly 30 years. This is my first attempt with my dual injector. Up until now I've either use commercially made laminate plates, or made my own from heavy aluminum flashing. Wanted to leave that behind and speed the process up. I think my biggest issue is my plastic cooling too fast. There are those, for lack of a better word, condoms that form over the nozzles. They cool and prevent the plastic from shooting. Too much pressure and I make a mess. Nozzles are hot enough, so then its got to be my plastic temps. Viscosity to me is everything. After I get to temps, no matter what or how I'm injecting, I check viscosity first.And yes, salt or glass beads make a difference. Plastic and additives too. These really had an effect when I first started shooting core shot baits. I guess just as I had a learning curve with core shot baits, there's going to be a learning curve with the dual injectors. Sooner or later I'll get the feel of it. Just be sure to keep a log of what you're doing, so you can duplicate it once you've got it solved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiderunner Posted February 5 Author Report Share Posted February 5 3 hours ago, CNC Molds N Stuff said: Just so you know. It's very unlikely you will ever get a sharp demarcation like using a laminate plate and shooting twice. I beg to differ. Most of my dual color baits made with plates have perfect lines. I make a fire river combo try orange and chartreuse. The halves are perfect. Another I make. I call earthworm is a laminate of blue earthworm and red earthworm, both MF. The colors are almost identical yet there is a clear demarcation between the two colors. That bait color is deadly here in the north east. The only time I don’t get perfect baits- When using my homemade plates. Difficult to get that aluminum to be perfectly flat. If the mold has 4 cavities three may be perfect but one is always messed up. Colt 2 may ooze into the first half or I get a lot of flashing. Neither is an issue with commercial plates made specifically for the mold. I don’t understand how a laminate plate can make an imperfect bait when you’re making two identical bait halves. I’ve also never had a bait delaminate on me. I’m always testing that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNC Molds N Stuff Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 1 hour ago, Tiderunner said: beg to differ. Most of my dual color baits made with plates have perfect lines Ummm.... You don't differ at all. Read what I wrote again. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiderunner Posted February 7 Author Report Share Posted February 7 Reread what you wrote. That's my bad. I read the word "like" as "line" We do agree on the laminate plate thing. I think once I get the feel of how much pressure I need to use with the dual injector I will be fine. My first attempt was so so. Second attempt, plastic was squirting everywhere, even with the mold clamped super tight. I backed off my ham handed pressure, and had unfilled cavities. I need to find that happy medium. When using my single injectors, (9oz ). I pop the nozzle off and pour the plastic into the tube. That's been working for me for years. Maybe I'll try that with the dual injector to keep that condom from forming over the nozzles. Luckily I'm using all my old remelts and I got tons to play with. There's gonna be a whole lot of weird color combos while I figure this out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNC Molds N Stuff Posted February 7 Report Share Posted February 7 Generally I prefer shot laminates, because they tend to be faster, but they don't make as sharp of a line. And... The sprues will remelt as a blend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiderunner Posted February 7 Author Report Share Posted February 7 48 minutes ago, CNC Molds N Stuff said: Generally I prefer shot laminates, because they tend to be faster, but they don't make as sharp of a line. And... The sprues will remelt as a blend. I bought the dual injector to speed up the process. Until I get past the learning curve it is actually slowe. The belded sprues become black. Even my reject baits with laminate plates...black. I grab whatever black disc I have, and remelt it, then add the bi-color sprues. I have a lot of black discs for reheating! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNC Molds N Stuff Posted February 7 Report Share Posted February 7 Black is a good color. The three biggest bass I caught last year came on black Curly Buzz Frogs (Jr and Regular). I did break off a monster on white though. My favorite stick (Club-O) color is a heavy salted watermelon / white pearl laminate. Anyway, yeah. Black is a good way to use up off colors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiderunner Posted February 10 Author Report Share Posted February 10 I think I got it figured out. I made some fire tiger senkos tonight. Orange and chartreuse. Tough colors to laminate. It seems my blending block cools down too fast. When I'm done injecting, the plastic in the blending block is already hard, but the plastic in the injectors is still liquid. I'll need to find a way to keep the injectors and block hot enough in between shooting. I'm thinking a hot plate. But I'm not sure if the circuit at the workbench is enough to run a hot plate, some lights and a microwave. Who knows what else in the house is running off this circuit. I may have to run a new circuit. Oh yeah. Heating everything to shoot baits with and heating plastic a little hotter, and more pressure was able to shoot 8- 5" senkos at a time, plus one 3.5" skirt. The cooling down is why only one skirt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishermanbt Posted February 10 Report Share Posted February 10 I use either a hot plate or a toaster oven to warm the molds up and to keep the injector and block hot. 175°-250° will usually do the trick depending on how cold the room is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apdriver Posted February 10 Report Share Posted February 10 (edited) No way can I delaminate a set of molds, pick up my injector and shoot again. After I shoot a set, I have to purge my injectors, pull the runners from the blending block and start over. It’s a slow process with hand injector and hand molds. Edited February 10 by Apdriver 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Young Posted February 12 Report Share Posted February 12 On 2/10/2024 at 12:04 PM, Apdriver said: No way can I delaminate a set of molds, pick up my injector and shoot again. After I shoot a set, I have to purge my injectors, pull the runners from the blending block and start over. It’s a slow process with hand injector and hand molds. I heat, inject, purge injector & block, wait 2 minutes, demold & then do the whole process over again. I've thought about a hot plate myself but have never went through with it simply because 99% of the time i work in 4 ounce batches for a single color bait or 4 ounces of each color for a laminate. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apdriver Posted February 12 Report Share Posted February 12 There is a way to pull and shoot until all your plastic is gone with dual injectors and that’s with a dual presto pot setup with automatic stirrers. You will still have to clear your blending block after you demold but the twin injectors you can put back in the hot plastic and draw and shoot and the plastic will stay fluid. You purge back into the pots and stick the nozzles back in the hot plastic. Just pull more plastic when ready. It takes quite a bit more than a few ounces of plastic to get two presto pots going though. Leonard Smith put mine together with PID thermostat controllers for the pots. That was quite a few years ago and not sure if anything like that is available now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiderunner Posted February 16 Author Report Share Posted February 16 On 2/10/2024 at 12:04 PM, Apdriver said: No way can I delaminate a set of molds, pick up my injector and shoot again. After I shoot a set, I have to purge my injectors, pull the runners from the blending block and start over. It’s a slow process with hand injector and hand molds. Yes indeed. That's what I'm doing. Thought this dual injector was gonna save me time over using laminate plates. Not so sure yet. I've been shooting 2 Do It Yamamoto Senko CNC molds and then move over to an Angling AI 3.5" skirt mold which uses hardly any plastic at all. I can only shoot one skirt before the blending block runners harden. On 2/11/2024 at 8:47 PM, Les Young said: I heat, inject, purge injector & block, wait 2 minutes, demold & then do the whole process over again. I've thought about a hot plate myself but have never went through with it simply because 99% of the time i work in 4 ounce batches for a single color bait or 4 ounces of each color for a laminate. I usually will shoot enough baits for a season for my son and myself. But probably not many more that you're shooting at one time. About 24 senkos, and maybe the same number of wacky worms. I wasn't thinking of getting a fancy hot plate. Just something from Target to keep everything warm in between injecting. Like a pancake griddle type. Got a few gift cards there. And while helping to keep everything warm, I can also keep my coffee mug on it. Investment is around $40.00 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
